ID laws

[Mongo59]

I am not condoning any kind of voter fraud. In fact I think voter fraud at the federal level, whether 1 vote or many, should be considered treason and be punishable by death. The election process should be protected.

But everyone should have access to vote, including those whose views you oppose.

Yes, but not by throwing mine away. One vote per citizen, period. The first illegal that votes 'his way' essentially cancels my vote.

And I say 'his way' because they wouldn't be here if they didn't, just ask the Cubans...

 

[Magyars]

Voter ID sure seems important when it's time to fire a democrat, eh?

1.19 million signatures verified in Newsom recall – Ballotpedia News

news.ballotpedia.org

Verification of signatures begins in effort to recall California Governor Gavin Newsom

Organizers of Recall Gavin 2020 said it has collected more than 1.5 million signatures. Now those in charge of the movement must verify all of them. If all the signatures are legitimate, a recall election would happen sometime this summer.

www.turnto23.com

Doesn't the same crowd want your vaccine passport to be mandatory for entry into places?

Communist hypocrisy

 

[Leo]

I think any "cost" in obtaining an ID is moot.

The poor in this country are almost exclusively living on public welfare in at least one way, usually multiple ways. The minimal cost of an ID is being covered in other places. Reminds me of the time the demos were promoting a college girl in a very expensive school that was "burdened" by the $9 a month for her choice of birth control.

A person HAS to have an ID to function as an adult in society. The only way to survive without an ID is to rely on someone else to take care of you. If that is the case, the person is a child, by their own design. Children do not vote. If a 50 year old puts them self in the category of a child, it is their problem.

People who are unproductive, irresponsible wards of the state casting votes is part of how we got into this mess already. I agree with the forefathers that breathing, eating, and sleeping in this land is not criteria for voting. Their opinion was that a person had to be responsible enough to earn their own way and contribute property tax to be worthy of the vote.

 

[NKBJ]

Yes, but not by throwing mine away. One vote per citizen, period. The first illegal that votes 'his way' essentially cancels my vote.

And I say 'his way' because they wouldn't be here if they didn't, just ask the Cubans...

I heard that only 200,000 came over in the last 60 days.

 

[blues bondsman]

Why voter ID is necessary ???
People are inherently law breakers.

John Adams put it best.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"

And our falling from our former ways are why we add thousands of new laws every year.

 

[marvin02]

I agree with the forefathers that breathing, eating, and sleeping in this land is not criteria for voting. Their opinion was that a person had to be responsible enough to earn their own way and contribute property tax to be worthy of the vote.

So:

You would not allow anyone who rents to vote? They do not directly pay property tax.

You would go back to no vote for women?

There are things the founding fathers got wrong and thankfully many have been fixed. In many ways the founders were no different than today's politicians. They were mostly well off and looking after their own interests.

 

[gregr]

So:

You would not allow anyone who rents to vote? They do not directly pay property tax.

You would go back to no vote for women?

There are things the founding fathers got wrong and thankfully many have been fixed. In many ways the founders were no different than today's politicians. They were mostly well off and looking after their own interests.

These words sound like "looking after their own interests"?

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."

They left us with a Constitution, that if only we would hold our elected EMPLOYEES accountable, preserves our freedoms and individual liberties. The Founders were incredibly brilliant and insightful, and understood human nature exceedingly well. They were far from perfect because they were just human men, but their devotion to and trust in God is what, I believe, allowed them to defeat the greatest army known to man at that time, and, craft the founding documents and principles that created a Republic which has lasted 245 years to date.

 

[NKBJ]

So:

You would not allow anyone who rents to vote? They do not directly pay property tax.

You would go back to no vote for women?

There are things the founding fathers got wrong and thankfully many have been fixed. In many ways the founders were no different than today's politicians. They were mostly well off and looking after their own interests.

Yet those are changes that have been part of bringing us to this horrible dilemma, to where we are now. There are going to be huge changes for those of us who stick around.
At least we won't be bored!

 

[Leo]

A man that pays his own rent does pay property tax, it is built in the price of the rent. A man that lives for free in someone else's property does not. It is not too difficult to differentiate between a person that is at least productive enough to pay his own way and one who is not.

My grandmother never worked outside the home, never earned any taxable income, lived in grandfathers house until she lived in someone else's house. She paid no attention to politics. She was not qualified to chose the leaders of this country and never did. My wife earned her own way while she was a widow and paid her own taxes. She does pay attention to politics and has a basis for her voting decisions.

Not too tough. At least the founding fathers felt confident they could define things. Today we have children making the decisions, and it is not working out.

 

[gregr]

A man that pays his own rent does pay property tax, it is built in the price of the rent.

I thought this was pretty self-evident.

 

[marvin02]

These words sound like "looking after their own interests"?

Words and deeds often conflict. And the glaring oversight in the founding of this country was the continuation of slavery. Did they not believe those slaves to not be men or did they allow the suffering of others to put more into their own pockets? Did they want to limit those who had the right to vote to the landed gentry because they thought the rest of those "equal men" too stupid to govern themselves or to perpetuate their own riches?

It would be fantastic if this country could live up to the words of the founding fathers without perpetuating the mistakes they made.

My grandmother never worked outside the home, never earned any taxable income, lived in grandfathers house until she lived in someone else's house

It's sad that you value your grandmother's contributions so little and have such a low opinion of women.

 

[marvin02]

In reply to the renters question I posed, remember that the founding fathers did not recognize renters as land owners, The tenant farmers of the time did not have the right to vote. The veterans of the 1812 war who fought for their country had to fight to get the right to vote.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Words and deeds often conflict. And the glaring oversight in the founding of this country was the continuation of slavery. Did they not believe those slaves to not be men or did they allow the suffering of others to put more into their own pockets? Did they want to limit those who had the right to vote to the landed gentry because they thought the rest of those "equal men" too stupid to govern themselves or to perpetuate their own riches?

It would be fantastic if this country could live up to the words of the founding fathers without perpetuating the mistakes they made.


It's sad that you value your grandmother's contributions so little and have such a low opinion of women.

I’d take the founding fathers ideals and intellect over yours, or any of ours. If you think some of the greatest minds in the world at that time got together and didn’t discuss the issues you’re raising, you’re wrong. You’ve tried every extreme to prove him wrong, constantly moving the goalposts from “people paying rent” to “women” to “slaves” and now you’re strawmanning by claiming he has a low opinion of women. His post wasn’t about women. You made it about women. He didn’t say women can’t vote, he said property taxes, and gave an example how his wife earned her way and paid attention to politics. Maybe it’s your low opinion of women that makes you use them as a tool in your opinions. I’m sure you understood he also doesn’t want uninformed, non contributing men to vote either... or maybe you didn’t. You shouldn’t tell people their opinion of any group of people must be low because you want to make your opinion the correct one, especially when you’re the one that brought that group into the discussion.

 

[marvin02]

and now you’re strawmanning by claiming he has a low opinion of women.

Actually, I found his opinion that his grandmother should not have the right to vote made it pretty clear the value HE placed on women.

I used the example of women not voting to show, to me, how ridiculous some of the limits that were placed on voting in the past.

The found Fathers kept coming into the discussion and I don't see how you discuss their successes without discussing their failures. The continuation of slavery was the biggest.

I brought up renters and got the response I thought I would. The Founding Fathers did not agree with those answers, renters in their time mostly did not get to vote. I say mostly, because voting rights were a state level issue for the most part and varied greatly from state to state.

I will say again, I think voter fraud of any kind is wrong. But I am against anything that makes it more difficult for people to vote.

The above and all of my previous posts are my opinion.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Actually, I found his opinion that his grandmother should not have the right to vote made it pretty clear the value HE placed on women.

I used the example of women not voting to show, to me, how ridiculous some of the limits that were placed on voting in the past.

The found Fathers kept coming into the discussion and I don't see how you discuss their successes without discussing their failures. The continuation of slavery was the biggest.

I brought up renters and got the response I thought I would. The Founding Fathers did not agree with those answers, renters in their time mostly did not get to vote. I say mostly, because voting rights were a state level issue for the most part and varied greatly from state to state.

I will say again, I think voter fraud of any kind is wrong. But I am against anything that makes it more difficult for people to vote.

The above and all of my previous posts are my opinion.

It wasn’t because she was a woman. If his grandfather had been the one that never worked, never paid, and always lived in someone else’s house, I’m sure he would’ve supported his grandmother voting and not his grandfather. I think that’s the main point you’re missing.

Yes, SOME of the limits were ridiculous, but they wanted secure, fair, and honest elections. Something we don’t have today, so we need to reinstate SOME restrictions to ensure that happens.

You may view it as failures, I view it as the world they lived in. Slavery was around for thousands of years, they gave slaves the opportunity to be free men. Not defending slavery, at all, but that was common in the world at that time.

Also, I believe the opposite. I don’t think making voting difficult, to ensure a honest election, is a bad thing. In the world we live in, everything is “difficult” to a lazy ass that doesn’t wanna put in the effort. The easier it is to vote, the easier it is to cheat.

 

[Leo]

Marvin, do not place your perception of my motives and logic on my value of my grandmother. You have zero understanding of my value system, about women or otherwise. Your assumptions are incorrect. Knock it off.

 

[gregr]

Actually, I found his opinion that his grandmother should not have the right to vote made it pretty clear the value HE placed on women.

I used the example of women not voting to show, to me, how ridiculous some of the limits that were placed on voting in the past.

The found Fathers kept coming into the discussion and I don't see how you discuss their successes without discussing their failures. The continuation of slavery was the biggest.

I brought up renters and got the response I thought I would. The Founding Fathers did not agree with those answers, renters in their time mostly did not get to vote. I say mostly, because voting rights were a state level issue for the most part and varied greatly from state to state.

I will say again, I think voter fraud of any kind is wrong. But I am against anything that makes it more difficult for people to vote.

The above and all of my previous posts are my opinion.

The Founders were EXCEPTIONALITY bright and principled men. Slavery was a cultural issue, and even though the Founders acknowledged it was immoral, it was an accepted evil of the culture of that day. We have MANY accepted evils today, and we are the most evil, immoral and godless period since perhaps the days of Noah. Thomas Jefferson said in regards to slavery:

"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever".

The Founders were human, they were flawed sinful men, but your continued bashing of them is unacceptable and hypocritical. You`re a sinner too, as am I. We`re all flawed men and women, we think wrong things, we do wrong things, but we are still capable of doing good and having right desires and motives. The Founders, by God`s grace and design, fostered the greatest Republic and nation the earth has ever seen. Our nations history is flawed to be sure, and even with all those flaws, we`re still that "Shining City upon a hill". We`re a beacon of hope all across the world for those who long for freedom and to shrug off tyrants and despots. The American GI have given their lives willingly to defeat evil all across the globe, and it all began with the Founders of this great nation.

As to your position that you`re against anything that makes it harder to vote; that`s utter hogwash. It HAS to be difficult to vote in order to protect the integrity of the vote. If someone will not get a simple government issued photo ID, then they are either not interested in voting, or, they ARE interested in committing fraud. Period.

Personally though, I`m beginning to find your America bashing tour pretty irritating. It`s getting old.

 

[bwframe]

How many elections will have to be stolen before we either sue the states who perpetuate election fraud or, heaven forbid, take other action to eliminate the threat to our republic?