How to stop mass shootings. Master's Degree Capstone

[Kutnupe14]

Don’t sweat it, it’ll never happen. You have your requirements as do millions of others which will prevent it from ever happening. This country proves time and again that it can’t get out of its own way.

Yeah, I know it's very remote that it would happen, but this point concerning knowing exactly "who" the people are that are educating your children has been hammered home recently.

 

[actaeon277]

The only way I'd agree with this, is if attending school wasn't mandatory.

Attending school isn't mandatory.
There is a home school option
Or a private school option.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Attending school isn't mandatory.
There is a home school option
Or a private school option.

Attending school IS mandatory...and it becomes MORE mandatory, the poorer you are.

 

[Tombs]

Hello, I am currently writing my capstone for my Masters Degree in Criminal Law. My topic is How to stop mass shootings in the U.S. (not the exact title). I am asking for serious educated input on how we, as legal gun owners can attempt to put a stop to the mass shootings, especially in schools. What are your opinions on Arming Teachers, retired police or veterans, mental illness and so on. Do you think that people really need an AR-15 or other "assault type rifle" (I have several myself). I would like unbiased opinions from real gun owners, not just CNN and anti-gunners.

I may use your quote, but obviously not your name or handle.

Thank you for your time.

The only way you're going to stop school shootings is if we wish to sacrifice our entire bill of rights in pursuit of stopping a hand full of murders annually.

Considering police protocols, response times, gun free zone policies, and many other things, we have tied the hands of those who would be willing to step in and stop a shooting. If we abolish no-gun-zones, train WILLING teachers how to better utilize their firearm and permit them to carry them in class, and we start holding people accountable who knew there was a problem but refused to tell anyone, we might reduce the frequency in which they occur and reduce the damage dealt when they do.

As for the AR15, the second amendment carried the intent that people would use the same arms our military is using. This has supreme court precedence as well.
The argument can never be over "needs," as no human being needs anything beyond air, water, and food. If we are to start considering anything beyond that a need, then of course we can also say that the AR15 is a need. Considering our military and police are armed with the firearm, it's the most clear cut and protected firearm type for the greater civilian public.

If you're concerned about "gun deaths," the AR15 is the last place you should be looking.

 

[Vigilant]

Yeah, I know it's very remote that it would happen, but this point concerning knowing exactly "who" the people are that are educating your children has been hammered home recently.

How do you really know who about anything Kut? Every week we see another teacher raping a kid under their care. They had backgrounds done before becoming teachers, what did that do for us? Outside of weekly polys, which aren’t that great an indicator, how do we check and “know” anything?

 

[Kutnupe14]

How do you really know who about anything Kut? Every week we see another teacher raping a kid under their care. They had backgrounds done before becoming teachers, what did that do for us? Outside of weekly polys, which aren’t that great an indicator, how do we check and “know” anything?

Teaching backgrounds aren't nearly as thorough as you think. In most cases they are a simple criminal background check. My mother, didn't even start checking social media until I suggested it to her before she started hiring teachers.

 

[Twangbanger]

OP, here is an article articulating a viewpoint you might find interesting:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ool-shootings-foster-friess-column/393704002/

 

[Kutnupe14]

OP, here is an article articulating a viewpoint you might find interesting:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ool-shootings-foster-friess-column/393704002/

I understand the sentiment, but I just don't buy it. There have always been kids that had a "rough go of it." I think a lot of it involves culture... not only for kids, but adults too. You want to know the best way to fix this crap? It's the B&F, the belt and the fist. Kids who grew up knowing the had the belt coming, or young adults the fist to the face, tended to act right. I remember telling my my I was calling the police for child abuse one time... she said "call them, I'll abuse them too."

 

[JLJK]

I understand the sentiment, but I just don't buy it. There have always been kids that had a "rough go of it." I think a lot of it involves culture... not only for kids, but adults too. You want to know the best way to fix this crap? It's the B&F, the belt and the fist. Kids who grew up knowing the had the belt coming, or young adults the fist to the face, tended to act right. I remember telling my my I was calling the police for child abuse one time... she said "call them, I'll abuse them too."

^^^this. There is no accountability anymore. Teachers can’t discipline or parents will *****. I had a teacher in high school that would knock us on the head with his class ring if we were bad. Can you imagine if a teacher did that now? Parents would probably press charges. In elementary school bad kids were sent to the office and paddled. Bring that stuff back into schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[actaeon277]

I agree 100 percent with Kut

 

[actaeon277]

Actually, I'd like to add some blame for the 24/7 media being on an anti-gun frenzy.

 

[Bookmark]

I understand the sentiment, but I just don't buy it. There have always been kids that had a "rough go of it." I think a lot of it involves culture... not only for kids, but adults too. You want to know the best way to fix this crap? It's the B&F, the belt and the fist. Kids who grew up knowing the had the belt coming, or young adults the fist to the face, tended to act right. I remember telling my my I was calling the police for child abuse one time... she said "call them, I'll abuse them too."

I agree with this sentiment Kut. But as I think we all know that ship has, for most of our society, sailed. Actually, I think that ship and it's entire fleet have sailed. Unfortunately, I don't now how to get them back, the next generation now thinks all of this is normal.

Ps. I'm late to this thread, but kudos to InGO for staying on track with this for three days.

 

[Twangbanger]

I understand the sentiment, but I just don't buy it. There have always been kids that had a "rough go of it." I think a lot of it involves culture... not only for kids, but adults too. You want to know the best way to fix this crap? It's the B&F, the belt and the fist. Kids who grew up knowing the had the belt coming, or young adults the fist to the face, tended to act right. I remember telling my my I was calling the police for child abuse one time... she said "call them, I'll abuse them too."

That's an interesting generalization, but this thread isn't about the set of all kids who had a "rough go" in life. It's specifically about the ones who hear voices inside their heads, whose brains don't make enough of the right kinds of chemicals, and who shoot up schools. These kids were always around, but we didn't always deal with them the way we do now. Now we have widespread use of "happy pills" to deal with problem kids. The focus is now on saving face for parents, and ensuring the happiness, independence, and self-determination of mentally ill people. And unfortunately, the safety of society at large can go get stuffed. Like it or not, the pharmaceutical companies and compassionate policy-influencers have made it this way. They do not believe in locking kids up. And parents for their part are not doing their jobs, so it falls to society to clean up the mess.

"Spiritual revival" is not an action plan. "1950s parenting" is also not an action plan. The OP's thread is about things we can take action on, and the actions of other individuals are unfortunately not within that scope. The moral character of people in a free society is, and has always been, a wild card which is beyond our control. We can only control society's response to the mayhem. And unfortunately, right now "banning guns" is sounding more actionable to many people than a return to 1950s parenting.
​

 

[Hoosierkav]

Why are these incidents happening? Why in the school and not someplace else? (and/or, what's the % of schools vs other places) What makes schools such a target? They're soft? Is there something else, such as the source of the emotional state of the shooter? Is the apple bad or is it the barrel?

Once we have dissected the root causes, then we can come up with some solutions. Removing prohibitions on arming teachers? Changing the "anti bully" culture to "pro quality citizenship" and "self esteem" (which helps with the drug epidemic too, and a host of other issues). Hardening schools probably makes sense, even due to the prospective disgruntled parent.

The problem with regulating the firearm is that the bad guy doesn't care, and doesn't care about extra penalties for using a forbidden/special firearm. So, you could have the death penalty on the table for using an AR in the commission of a crime, but if I have a death wish already, it's a moot point.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That's an interesting generalization, but this thread isn't about the set of all kids who had a "rough go" in life. It's specifically about the ones who hear voices inside their heads, whose brains don't make enough of the right kinds of chemicals, and who shoot up schools. These kids were always around, but we didn't always deal with them the way we do now. Now we have widespread use of "happy pills" to deal with problem kids. The focus is now on saving face for parents, and ensuring the happiness, independence, and self-determination of mentally ill people. And unfortunately, the safety of society at large can go get stuffed. Like it or not, the pharmaceutical companies and compassionate policy-influencers have made it this way. They do not believe in locking kids up. And parents for their part are not doing their jobs, so it falls to society to clean up the mess.

"Spiritual revival" is not an action plan. "1950s parenting" is also not an action plan. The OP's thread is about things we can take action on, and the actions of other individuals are unfortunately not within that scope. The moral character of people in a free society is, and has always been, a wild card which is beyond our control. We can only control society's response to the mayhem. And unfortunately, right now "banning guns" is sounding more actionable to many people than a return to 1950s parenting.
​

I'm sorry, I just doesn't reconcile with what I believe. If I'm to believe that school shootings are about kids with chemical imbalances in their brains and taking happy pills, then I'm also going to have to believe that for some reason, our very specific portion of the planet creates more of these kinds kids, and we treat them with drugs that are unique to the United States. In my personal opinion, we don't have "more" of these kids, nor do we have "special" drugs. I am forced to believe that this unfortunate form of "American Exceptionalism," can be more attributed to a change of culture, than us simply having a troubled kids that are too medicated... as the latter I will assure you is a common issue throughout the developed world.

 

[Twangbanger]

Why are these incidents happening? Why in the school and not someplace else? (and/or, what's the % of schools vs other places) What makes schools such a target? They're soft? Is there something else, such as the source of the emotional state of the shooter? Is the apple bad or is it the barrel?

Once we have dissected the root causes, then we can come up with some solutions...

I think young disturbed people focus on shooting up schools for the same reason disgruntled postal workers focus on shooting up...well, post offices. Adults ask, "why schools?" But to the kid, it's obvious. To a disturbed kid who's spent most of his life going to a school every day, that's where the majority of the conflict in his life has occurred. It's where people judge him, manage him, hassle him. There's a bunch of authority figures there. It's where he experiences objective failure in comparison to his peers. It's where everybody knows what a freak and a loser he is. And if you want to make a sensational story, that's the top of the list. I personally don't think the fact that somebody hung up a silly GFZ sign, stupid as it is, has anything to do with the target choice. They would want to shoot up the school whether that sign was there or not. If a deep red state like Indiana can "allow" schools to arm teachers, and yet none of them do it, then who are we fooling? No significant amount of teachers have ever been armed in this country, anywhere. That has never changed, and it likely never will. Many teachers don't trust their own colleagues to have guns, so they're going to sit there on their asses and wait for a nation with 400 million guns in private hands to legislate itself into a pacifist-utopian state to make them safe.

We now find out that in addition to the umpty-dozen engagements with the police, Nikolas Cruz also described his mental disturbances and fantasies about killing people to mental health counselors during a couple different courses of treatment. Nobody did anything. These people in positions of authority don't see themselves as having any serious obligation to protect society. They see their only duty as serving "the client." They think their only responsibility is to the mentally disturbed person himself. The rest of society can go hang. There is a dereliction of duty there.

The solution to this problem is for police and mental health case workers to be forced to get serious about managing these dangerous individuals on a case-by-case basis, constrained by rules that prioritize the good of society, not just the fulfillment of the individual himself. When somebody jokes on social media about shooting up a school, it should be treated the same as if they made a threat against the President. My Ryeets? Kid, you have one job in life. And that's to stay in school and not cause trouble. If their parents are not doing the job, the government needs to start keeping a leash on these kids, instead of standing back with our hands tied, acting like we can't do anything.

 

[Twangbanger]

I'm sorry, I just doesn't reconcile with what I believe. If I'm to believe that school shootings are about kids with chemical imbalances in their brains and taking happy pills, then I'm also going to have to believe that for some reason, our very specific portion of the planet creates more of these kinds kids, and we treat them with drugs that are unique to the United States. In my personal opinion, we don't have "more" of these kids, nor do we have "special" drugs. I am forced to believe that this unfortunate form of "American Exceptionalism," can be more attributed to a change of culture, than us simply having a troubled kids that are too medicated... as the latter I will assure you is a common issue throughout the developed world.

So two questions:

1) What about American culture changed abruptly in the 1990s (ie, when school shootings began), which was completely unparalleled by any similar change elsewhere in the world? (That question has two parts).

2) If you can answer both parts of (1), then what about your answer is actionable, and by what means?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So two questions:

1) What about American culture changed abruptly in the 1990s (ie, when school shootings began), which was completely unparalleled by any similar change elsewhere in the world? (That question has two parts).

2) If you can answer both parts of (1), then what about your answer is actionable, and by what means?

It's interesting that you used the exact date I was thinking 1990. In 1990 the term "Helicopter Parent," was coined. A helicopter parent being that "soft hand" parent that obsesses over their children to (IMO) an unhealthy extreme. This gave rise to the everybody is winner philosophy, 10th place trophies, and it always being "the other kid's" fault. The unparalleled notion is the relative wealth Americans enjoyed compared to other nations, which allowed people to dote over little Johnny/Jane.

The actionable part? That's open to debate, but the first place I'd start is with discipline. For people of a certain age, soap in the mouth, castor oil, school paddlings, picking your own switch, and being lifted up by one arm in the grocery store as your dad beat your *** were real things.

 

[chemteach]

I think young disturbed people focus on shooting up schools for the same reason disgruntled postal workers focus on shooting up...well, post offices. Adults ask, "why schools?" But to the kid, it's obvious. To a disturbed kid who's spent most of his life going to a school every day, that's where the majority of the conflict in his life has occurred. It's where people judge him, manage him, hassle him. There's a bunch of authority figures there. It's where he experiences objective failure in comparison to his peers. It's where everybody knows what a freak and a loser he is. And if you want to make a sensational story, that's the top of the list. I personally don't think the fact that somebody hung up a silly GFZ sign, stupid as it is, has anything to do with the target choice. They would want to shoot up the school whether that sign was there or not. If a deep red state like Indiana can "allow" schools to arm teachers, and yet none of them do it, then who are we fooling? No significant amount of teachers have ever been armed in this country, anywhere. That has never changed, and it likely never will. Many teachers don't trust their own colleagues to have guns, so they're going to sit there on their asses and wait for a nation with 400 million guns in private hands to legislate itself into a pacifist-utopian state to make them safe.

We now find out that in addition to the umpty-dozen engagements with the police, Nikolas Cruz also described his mental disturbances and fantasies about killing people to mental health counselors during a couple different courses of treatment. Nobody did anything. These people in positions of authority don't see themselves as having any serious obligation to protect society. They see their only duty as serving "the client." They think their only responsibility is to the mentally disturbed person himself. The rest of society can go hang. There is a dereliction of duty there.

The solution to this problem is for police and mental health case workers to be forced to get serious about managing these dangerous individuals on a case-by-case basis, constrained by rules that prioritize the good of society, not just the fulfillment of the individual himself. When somebody jokes on social media about shooting up a school, it should be treated the same as if they made a threat against the President. My Ryeets? Kid, you have one job in life. And that's to stay in school and not cause trouble. If their parents are not doing the job, the government needs to start keeping a leash on these kids, instead of standing back with our hands tied, acting like we can't do anything.

Not sure we should beat up the police on this issue of what to do with a mentally ill person. The police are trained to respond to criminals and deal with those actions. And, we have a place to put criminals, jails. We don't have a place to put the mentally ill. At best, if the individual is acting treatening the police may be able to have them held for a brief period of time to be evaluated. The tough question is to what degree is this person a threat to themselves or a threat to others? I taught a lot of years in a fairly large inner city high school and I saw kids that I thought were just bat-sh*t crazy. And yes, I would point them out to the admin, the social worker, the SRO and the counselors, but you can't commit a person just because you think they're bat-sh*t crazy and your spidey sense tingles every time you see them in the hallway. Don't know the answers, but I think placing blame on the police for not locking up mentally ill people is not reasonable.

 

[phylodog]

It's interesting that you used the exact date I was thinking 1990. In 1990 the term "Helicopter Parent," was coined. A helicopter parent being that "soft hand" parent that obsesses over their children to (IMO) an unhealthy extreme. This gave rise to the everybody is winner philosophy, 10th place trophies, and it always being "the other kid's" fault. The unparalleled notion is the relative wealth Americans enjoyed compared to other nations, which allowed people to dote over little Johnny/Jane.

The actionable part? That's open to debate, but the first place I'd start is with discipline. For people of a certain age, soap in the mouth, castor oil, school paddlings, picking your own switch, and being lifted up by one arm in the grocery store as your dad beat your *** were real things.

Spot on Sir.