Good choices for Primary Defensive Folders

[mercop]

For the money it is hard to beat the Spyderco Endura and it has a drone/trainer. Without a trainer you will never be able to safely do realistic force on force which is a necessity for anything you are going to stake your life on. Knives that open with any sort of a button or gizmo are bound to fail under stress. Murphy's law is always there but you can still do your best to limit your exposure to things that are more likley to induce failures.- George

 

[y3khunter]

Krylon fixes yellow I'll have to take a look at those when I get back.

One thing I mentioned briefly but think bears repeating, don't depend on gadget opening methods. They are bound to fail at the least opportune moment. This is one of the reasons I don't like to carry auto opening, or assisted opening knives, how do you efficiently get that thing open if the button doesn't work?

To steal a line from George, inertia opening are even less reliable. Much like George, I've lost count of the number of knives I've seen go flying when the guy operating it tried to "flip it open." You have to compromise your grip to make that happen. Then if it opens, you have to adjust the grip to use it. All in all, not a good deal. Thanks to George for reminding me of this in a recent class.

Tinman....

No doubt about it, people forget that mechanically assisted knives are a machine, and all machines will fail, eventually, and usually when they are needed the most, get a good folder and practice practice practice, when you get tired of that, practice some more, that way the only thing that can fail is you. If it isn't obvious I am a huge spyderco fan, the lockback mechanism is one of the oldest strongest locks out there, coupled with quality blades you just can't beat them.

Your weakest day training is your strongest day fighting.

Hey Tinman, if you got an APO/FPO addy Spyderco will ship directly to you.

 

[Nakatomi]

+1 Spyderco

 

[mfrobert]

I love my Spyderco Military for a PDF...It has proved to be useful both as a utilitarian knife but I also know with its large blade and partial serration it would get the job done!

 

[jdhaines]

I personally love my Benchmade Griptillian. I haven't found anything as fast as the axis lock, and it is just as fast at closing. Not a big deal for a fight, but nice for the "box-cutting" operations. Still very sturdy, and tons of available grip.

 

[mercop]

How is the lock fast?- George

 

[Dryden]

My latest EDC is a Kershaw Blur with the red & black scales. Smooth assisted opening, light weight, holds an edge, and the color doesn't send the flock running to dial 911...."ooooh, look at the pretty knife."

 

[Tinman]

Oops, wrong thread, back to your regularly scheduled program.........

 

[joslar15]

Below are some of my favorite knives when it comes to Primary Defensive Folders. These are not for opening boxes or cleaning your nails but rather for SD if by choice, regulation, or law you carry folder. Even though many people go on an on about how if you are going to a knife fight you want a fixed blade, the truth is about 75% of us carry a folder every day. Gotta dance with who brought ya.

Left to right

Benchmade Skirmish (this one is customized)
Emerson CQC8 modded to tip down carry, excellent blade shape for SD
Benchmade Deja Voo
Benchmade AFCK (pre AXIS lock)
Spyderco Chinook GEN I (GEN II has more of a Persian blade profile)
Al Mar Payara
Spyderco Military

Nice collection! I'm guessing you don't care for the wave feature of the Emerson, hence the tip down mod?

 

[bwframe]

Nice collection! I'm guessing you don't care for the wave feature of the Emerson, hence the tip down mod?

Not trying to speak for mercop, but no he doesn't, with the exception of the left handed Karambit.

Oooh look, Emerson has a way too cool gadget/tool with the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Emerson Bad Intent Skull logo;
[/SIZE][/FONT]Titanium Bottle Opener and Bushing Wrench: Emerson Knives
Sorry for the thread jack. Couldn't help myself.

 

[joslar15]

Not trying to speak for mercop, but no he doesn't, with the exception of the left handed Karambit.

Oooh look, Emerson has a way too cool gadget/tool with the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Emerson Bad Intent Skull logo;
[/SIZE][/FONT]Titanium Bottle Opener and Bushing Wrench: Emerson Knives
Sorry for the thread jack. Couldn't help myself.

I ran across the wave video here on another thread and thought it was pretty cool. I,ve already sent the wife & daughter links of other potential Father's Day knives and was thinking of the Emerson.

I did see Tinman's explanation regarding autos/assists, so I was curious.

 

[mercop]

Not a fan of waved/auto/assisted knives for SD. YMMV.

 

[bigcraig]

Not a fan of waved/auto/assisted knives for SD. YMMV.

Can I ask why?

I don't really compare the wave feature to autos/assisted, but then again, I am a complete noob in knife tactics in regards to self defense.

I actually aquired and Emerson CQC10 after watching, a certain instructor that you and I both know, demonstrate it use during a lull in the action at a class a couple of years ago.

I will also admit, that I just purchased a fixed blade from TOPS that intriged me. The knife in question is called a Felony Stop, for some strange reason it just caught my eye as being very practical and a bit more thought out than a TDI.

TOPS Knives.com

 

[mercop]

The first reason is that they don't have trainers for them. Knives are contact distance weapons and rely on movement to be effective. The way that you become faster doing something is learning how to do it with the best economy of motion and then lots of repetition. Would you stand in your bedroom with a loaded firearm practicing draws from a new holster? Of course not. Doing this with a live blade would be the same thing. The common sense portion of your mind will not let you go 100% with a live blade, even when you are alone just drawing it. You will provide extra room so you don't yourself. It is impossible to do and sort of force on forces safely with a live blade. OK, that's one.

Second, when it comes to self defense folders if you use anything besides your thumb to open the blade you are trusting the wave, spring, or button to work all the time. Anyone playing with these knives has had failures under calm conditions, much less stress. The back up to a failed opening is your thumb, why not use that since it has a much higher success rate to begin with?

Third, while actuating the wave, button, or ramp, the grip you have is very poor, in fact not really a grip. More of a pinch between your two fingers. You somehow have juggle the knife in your hand to get a usable fighting grip.

For me this only relates to Primary Defensive Folders (folders that sole purpose is for self defense) not to open boxes or cut sandwiches. PDFs are carried between the pocket seams to the front. Utility folders are carried pocket seams to the rear. My utility folder is either and Al MAr SERE 2000 or Strider Suspect SMF. The don't fit my criteria for PDFs because they are tip up. Thus carried in my strongside rear pocket. Again back to using anatomy, body mechanics, along with hardware selection to acheive the most consistant economy of motion. Hope this explains a bit- George

 

[Jeremiah]

:: Spyderco Search Results ::

wave trainers^

not trying to start a flame war, and not much of a fighter myself. I do however always have a wave knife on me, only my plain edge delica has failed me and I simply had it too tight. any pocket folder will have a bad grip getting it from the pocket. the waves and the round hole spydercos in a tip down carry ( like the millitary style knife from spyderco, or the police model) pinching the round hole leads to the fastest form of opening I can find. It works every time and I can quickly transition from the pinch of the hole to a strong grip on the handle. much Faster and more securley then I can pull the knife from the pocket, get a comfortable grip that doesn't block the blade, index my thumb on the stud and open the knife. the wave knives are even faster. Its a pinch, a flick and then form a real grip. Half the time it takes to use a thumb stud.
the truth is though, even with a microtech socom folder, that a folding knife can fail if you want a fast defensive knife find a fixed blade you can comfortably carry and leave the folders for chores.

fixed balde> single action out the front auto ( microtech HALO)> folder.

All of this is my Opinion.

 

[mercop]

:: Spyderco Search Results ::

wave trainers^

not trying to start a flame war, and not much of a fighter myself. I do however always have a wave knife on me, only my plain edge delica has failed me and I simply had it too tight. any pocket folder will have a bad grip getting it from the pocket. the waves and the round hole spydercos in a tip down carry ( like the millitary style knife from spyderco, or the police model) pinching the round hole leads to the fastest form of opening I can find. It works every time and I can quickly transition from the pinch of the hole to a strong grip on the handle. much Faster and more securley then I can pull the knife from the pocket, get a comfortable grip that doesn't block the blade, index my thumb on the stud and open the knife. the wave knives are even faster. Its a pinch, a flick and then form a real grip. Half the time it takes to use a thumb stud.
the truth is though, even with a microtech socom folder, that a folding knife can fail if you want a fast defensive knife find a fixed blade you can comfortably carry and leave the folders for chores.

fixed balde> single action out the front auto ( microtech HALO)> folder.

All of this is my Opinion.

Jeremiah, no worries, we are all guests here and these are discussion forums. Have you drawn the knife during force on force? We do force on force in every class and when failures are evidenced over and over again using a certain tool or technique whether the person be a veteran or a beginner it is my job to try to figure out a better way and limit exposure to things that cause failure. This is the reason I do not like waved knives, at least waved to the rear, autos and assists.- George

 

[tyler34]

I've always been a fan of spyderco in cost vs. value and quality, especially when you could get natives in s30v at wal-mart. my new SD knife I'm trying out/testing is the stryder colab with zero tolerance 0301. it has the speedsafe flipper but also a thumb stud for deployment. the blade is stout and wide. I like recurve in a blade so thats a plus. the titanium framlock is rock solid.

 

[IMPULSE.ACTIONS]

I've been looking into a small folder a little bit and think that I will probably get a spyderco.