EPA Releases Tons Of Pollution Into Colorado River

[Alpo]

What's this negative poop from you two about private enterprise and profits? I don't object to profits. I object to Citizens United. I object to companies that dump pollution and injure their employees and neighbors. I object to mediocre CEO's who make outrageous amounts of money in relation to their contributions...no not the Gates or the Jobs or the Zuckerbergs. You can find your own list of the overpaid CEO's. The Street carries a list.

I won't turn this on it's head and say You and Pinkie support, corporate graft, insider trading, illegal dumping, price fixing, corrupt foreign practices, RICO violations and...what else?...oh Dog Kicking. I know you do, because you obviously love everything done by private enterprise. INC-sniffers.

As to the article, you looked at all of them didja? Did you watch the video? Obviously not.

Once again, I leave you two to your delusions. Adios.

 

[oldpink]

Graft?
Overpaid?
Insider trading?
Yeah, no anti-capitalist agitprop to see here, folks.
Why would anyone ever possibly believe that you have a Marxist urge to scratch?

 

[Alpo]

Why do you hate honest businessmen Pink and support criminals?

Are you one of those guys who throws trash out his windows on the highways and dumps used motor oil in the yard. Are you a Cousin Eddy?

 

[oldpink]

Why do you hate honest businessmen Pink and support criminals?

Are you one of those guys who throws trash out his windows on the highways and dumps used motor oil in the yard. Are you a Cousin Eddy?

I'm not the one out throwing around blanket statements, now am I?

 

[Alpo]

Ummmm, yeah. You were.

 

[oldpink]

Ummmm, yeah. You were.

Where?
I said that the people in the EPA involved in this debacle should face responsibility for their actions, and not just "government accountability" whereby they just say my fault and keep their jobs with not other consequences.
You, on the other hand, freely and easily express an open distaste for private industry at large, including in the post to which I replied.
Don't try and claim you're the virtuous one with no agenda here, when it's clear that you do.

 

[Alpo]

Your words. I retired from private industry. Well, not exactly private. A Fortune 500 company. I have an open distaste for shortcuts that result in long term bad consequences. My position is not so different from Adam Smith. If you've read him, you'd know that.

And you really should get rid of that Dave Gilmour pic. Your philosophy is not anywhere close to his. I'd say it's almost 180 out of phase.

 

[oldpink]

Your words. I retired from private industry. Well, not exactly private. A Fortune 500 company. I have an open distaste for shortcuts that result in long term bad consequences. My position is not so different from Adam Smith. If you've read him, you'd know that.

And you really should get rid of that Dave Gilmour pic. Your philosophy is not anywhere close to his. I'd say it's almost 180 out of phase.

Again this obsession with an avatar?
You actually believe that a person's taste in music should be dictated by his political views?
And *I* am the one here with the agenda?
Pull up a mirror, dude.

 

[Alpo]

I don't have an agenda. I'm retired. I'm old. I'm not going to change a dang thing. I do think you guys work yourselves into a froth and I question how much real life experience sits behind those ideas. How much of the world some of you have seen.

 

[oldpink]

I don't have an agenda. I'm retired. I'm old. I'm not going to change a dang thing. I do think you guys work yourselves into a froth and I question how much real life experience sits behind those ideas. How much of the world some of you have seen.

And yet we're not the ones here distorting this particular issue by blaming private industry, private industry that shut this mine down in 1020 -- last I checked, well before the idea of an EPA even existed -- while at the same time expressing allegiance to your precious EPA, the same EPA who caused this very disaster.
But hey, results don't matter, only intentions.

 

[17 squirrel]

Yea, Leadville is a interesting place. My parents have a home in Breckenridge, My brother owns a bunch of squares maybe 10-12 miles outside of Leadville, He bought it in the early eightys. My kid goes out for Christmas for two weeks every year to hunt with his uncle. The last time I was there the Leadville train was still running . it's sad when you see the environmental mess that was left from the past. But its also part of Colorado's past,present and future.
The sadist part of Leadville is there is just to many people there now.

 

[17 squirrel]

And yet we're not the ones here distorting this particular issue by blaming private industry, private industry that shut this mine down in 1020 -- last I checked, well before the idea of an EPA even existed -- while at the same time expressing allegiance to your precious EPA, the same EPA who caused this very disaster.
But hey, results don't matter, only intentions.

1020. .... Was that before or after JC ?

 

[oldpink]

1020. .... Was that before or after JC ?

Doh!
Yeah, intended to make that 1920,

 

[jamil]

What's this negative poop from you two about private enterprise and profits? I don't object to profits. I object to Citizens United. I object to companies that dump pollution and injure their employees and neighbors. I object to mediocre CEO's who make outrageous amounts of money in relation to their contributions...no not the Gates or the Jobs or the Zuckerbergs. You can find your own list of the overpaid CEO's. The Street carries a list.

I won't turn this on it's head and say You and Pinkie support, corporate graft, insider trading, illegal dumping, price fixing, corrupt foreign practices, RICO violations and...what else?...oh Dog Kicking. I know you do, because you obviously love everything done by private enterprise. INC-sniffers.

As to the article, you looked at all of them didja? Did you watch the video? Obviously not.

Once again, I leave you two to your delusions. Adios.

So let me get what you're saying here. If I think that people who **** up should be held accountable, EVEN IF THEY WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT, that means I support graft, insider trading, illegal dumping, price fixing, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera? Dude, please stop the false dichotomies. Every time someone says something against one of your pet government agencies, you claim they're saying more than they're saying. Please stop that.

I'll say this again. Please don't infer more from it than is intended. It only means what it means. No more. All I've ever said in this thread is that the people who ****ed up should be held accountable. I've read the articles, and listened to the press conferences. The EPA themselves said they ****ed up. They've admitted that they should have taken certain precautions that they did not take. That's negligence.

The EPA hires humans from the same pool as businesses, a few of which are incompetent, or power hungry, or corrupt, or lazy. Working for government doesn't magically make their employees immune from the failings of humanity any more than working for profit making corporations automatically makes their employees uniquely all of those things.

So you've worked in private industry yourself. If you ****ed up to the extent that your mistake caused an impact of that magnitude, you'd be fired. So would I. So should those EPA employees who ****ed up. And, the EPA should pay whatever the actual damages are, not just out of the $500K fund they're making available. Because if the real financial impact of this spill is only $500K, it's probably not worth all the hubbub the press has given it.

Your words. I retired from private industry. Well, not exactly private. A Fortune 500 company. I have an open distaste for shortcuts that result in long term bad consequences. My position is not so different from Adam Smith. If you've read him, you'd know that.

And you really should get rid of that Dave Gilmour pic. Your philosophy is not anywhere close to his. I'd say it's almost 180 out of phase.

I know this isn't directed at me, but given the past mischaracterizations of my positions on various things, I think you have no idea what is my philosophy. I'll give you a hint. I hate shortcuts that result in long term bad consequences as well. I tend to REALLY, REALLY want the people who do that **** to be held accountable. The difference appears to be that I don't discriminate whether it's public or private sector. So if you hate shortcuts so much, why do you excuse it when it's the EPA who does it?

I don't have an agenda. I'm retired. I'm old. I'm not going to change a dang thing. I do think you guys work yourselves into a froth and I question how much real life experience sits behind those ideas. How much of the world some of you have seen.

I honestly don't think you're "agenda" driven. I just think you tend to pigeonhole various responses into some stereotypical ideology. I also think you tend to think your experience is better than others'. It's okay. I understand engineers. I've been one in one capacity or other for more than 30 years. We can be egocentric of our own ideas that way.

 

[Alpo]

As Rummie said: You got yer known unknowns, and yer unknown unknowns.

Gold King Mine owner: ?I foresaw disaster? before EPA spill into Animas River in Colorado | FOX6Now.com

There is a current owner of the Gold King Mine. He blames the pressure buildup on the Canadians who own Sunnyside Mine. The Canadians say: "eh?"

Gold King hasn't been abandoned for 100 years. It was extensively worked in the mid-1990's (by a prior owner). The EPA apparently sealed the mine last year. When they returned this August, no one expected that there would be a pressure buildup behind the bulkhead they installed in 2014.



Duh.

I'm going to switch sides based on that information. If what is reported here is true, the EPA remediators SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that a possible problem with pressure existed. A known unknown.

They were the ones who constructed the bulkhead.

Knowing that a mine discharge has increased from less than 10 gpm to something greater than a 100 gpm (or 200 gpm) should have told the hydrologist that sealing a shaft exit (the adit) would likely increase pressure. I wouldn't be surprised to see that the bulkhead blew out on its own at some point. As it was, when they attempted to place a relief pipe at the top of the chamber, the roof partially collapsed allowing water discharged. Once it gets started, all hell can break loose.

So, I guess I'm agreeing with you guys, but not for the reasons you got to where you are.

 

[CountryBoy1981]

As Rummie said: You got yer known unknowns, and yer unknown unknowns.

Gold King Mine owner: ?I foresaw disaster? before EPA spill into Animas River in Colorado | FOX6Now.com

There is a current owner of the Gold King Mine. He blames the pressure buildup on the Canadians who own Sunnyside Mine. The Canadians say: "eh?"

Gold King hasn't been abandoned for 100 years. It was extensively worked in the mid-1990's (by a prior owner). The EPA apparently sealed the mine last year. When they returned this August, no one expected that there would be a pressure buildup behind the bulkhead they installed in 2014.



Duh.

I'm going to switch sides based on that information. If what is reported here is true, the EPA remediators SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that a possible problem with pressure existed. A known unknown.

They were the ones who constructed the bulkhead.

Knowing that a mine discharge has increased from less than 10 gpm to something greater than a 100 gpm (or 200 gpm) should have told the hydrologist that sealing a shaft exit (the adit) would likely increase pressure. I wouldn't be surprised to see that the bulkhead blew out on its own at some point. As it was, when they attempted to place a relief pipe at the top of the chamber, the roof partially collapsed allowing water discharged. Once it gets started, all hell can break loose.

So, I guess I'm agreeing with you guys, but not for the reasons you got to where you are.

If the EPA were a private business, would you be fine with them just saying sorry our fault?

 

[Alpo]

No. They need to pay for the cleanup like I would expect a private company to be responsible for. That whole area is a can of worms though. Or maybe a game of whack-a-mole.

 

[jamil]

Typically when someone admits they ****ed up, I don't try to prove six ways from Sunday that they're telling the truth. It's not something people typically lie about. I can see spending the time to make sure they didn't **** up much worse than they've admitted to.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

EPA Watchdog Begins Investigation into Colorado Wastewater Spill | Washington Free Beacon

 

[poisonspyder]

1. Did The EPA Intentionally Poison Animas River To Secure SuperFund Money? | Zero Hedge


2. Was EPA's Animas Accident on purpose? | Drudge Retort


3. EPA Pumps a Million Gallons of Contaminated Water Into Animas River, Thinks It Might Be a Problem | www.independentsentinel.com


4. EPA Chief on Animas Disaster: River Can Heal Itself | Drudge Retort


5. Search the Silverton paper for the 7/30/2015 letter to the editor from the geologist.


6. Months before the spill, the EPA stated there wasn't enough ground contamination in the local soil to make the area eligible for "Superfund" cleanup assistance. Now there is plenty of eligibility.