Could Gun Registration Have Prevented Katrina Gun-Grab?

[SavageEagle]

No, IIRC the National Guard was there helping the NOPD to confiscate guns under the orders of the Governor. I'll have to go back through my video archive of the events, but I do recall that the NOPD had evacuated (Read: Chickenshitbastards FLED) the area except for a small detachment of police officers. The National Guard was called in after the wake of the storm, not to help but to disarm. On the recommendation of the Mayor, and order of the governor.

 

[SavageEagle]

I don't think that martial law reasonably applied to the Katrina situation. The things that happened there are very scary.

Gun registration would have made things worse, not better. They would still have to go house to house - criminals won't register - but in the law-abiding registered houses who couldn't produce the guns on the list, they would then have reason to tear the house up looking. It would put the onus on the gun owner to account for the gun.

Registration would do very little to stop crime.

Under the OP's logic, why not just have everyone's DNA and fingerprints on file? Just require it. Also, why not allow the government to have surprise house inspections? I mean, as long as they're polite and don't wreck anything, why not allow agents to come to your house and check that you don't have any drugs or illegal weapons, or stolen goods in your house? What do honest citizens have to fear from that?

Only that it means they're not free.

EXACTLY.

Government has no damn buisness in my affairs, let alone my home.

 

[jeremy]

Ahhh...

First that would have to be ruled an abandoned property by Jag and Contracting together. Then contracting would track down who the authority would be to seek approval (higher person in the Pastor's faith) before we would be allowed to even move into the facility.

Believe it or not the Military does actually work inside of very tight confines with regards to interactions with the civilian world. Even in Martial Law situations. Martial Law does change the rules a little but there is still a legal obligation process that we have to go though. And as far as I know Martial Law was not imposed during Operation Katrina.

 

[jeremy]

No, IIRC the National Guard was there helping the NOPD to confiscate guns under the orders of the Governor. I'll have to go back through my video archive of the events, but I do recall that the NOPD had evacuated (Read: Chickenshitbastards FLED) the area except for a small detachment of police officers. The National Guard was called in after the wake of the storm, not to help but to disarm. On the recommendation of the Mayor, and order of the governor.

Huh...

Really I was part of that force...

Nope I can not recall ever being ordered to disarm Americans. I do remember Military units telling the Police that were disarming people to quit though...

Please post the video link so I can see what units were involved in these actions! Thank you!

 

[henktermaat]

The answer is... NO.

but, kudos on a post that reads well and presents coherent thoughts.

 

[jennybird]

They didn't bother to ask anyone for a receipt of purchase... What makes you think they would ask for their registration? I see the point you're trying to make, but it doesn't hold water. Registration would just save them time by knowing exactly which houses to go to first... probably skipping the ones that have unregistered guns (aka most likely to be criminals), completely defeating the intent altogether.

 

[SavageEagle]

Huh...

Really I was part of that force...

Nope I can not recall ever being ordered to disarm Americans. I do remember Military units telling the Police that were disarming people to quit though...

Please post the video link so I can see what units were involved in these actions! Thank you!

I thank you for that.

I will go back through my archives in a bit. I have to find my power cord for my external HDD....

 

[dburkhead]

Ahhh...

First that would have to be ruled an abandoned property by Jag and Contracting together. Then contracting would track down who the authority would be to seek approval (higher person in the Pastor's faith) before we would be allowed to even move into the facility.

Maybe that's what they should have done, but what they did was leave a note.

Believe it or not the Military does actually work inside of very tight confines with regards to interactions with the civilian world. Even in Martial Law situations. Martial Law does change the rules a little but there is still a legal obligation process that we have to go though. And as far as I know Martial Law was not imposed during Operation Katrina.

Again, that's how things are supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that's the way it actually happens--at least not always.

 

[Annie Oakley]

To me there is no reason for registration. The only thing it does is identify the law abiding gun owner and leaves the ones who are criminals to go about their business. It is an infringement of something that is not to be infringed.

 

[jeremy]

Gun registration rates right up there with me registering my televisions. Makes since to register your TV sets right. See now your thinking why should I register my TV. Well, now you know how I felt when you suggested I register my firearms.

 

[jeremy]

David I would still almost say that some elder in that community said the .mil units could occupy that church. Right or wrong.
The majority of the units involved were trying to help the communities involved. A lot better than some of the LEA involved were.

 

[rvb]

Innocence of a crime is not something that is to be proven and documented. That burdon is on the accuser. This kind of thinking is backwards to the way this country is supposed to be run.

To imply registration is needed is to imply that owning a gun is illegal and the registration and documentation is an exception to that illegal act.

Registration makes confiscation easier. It does not make it more difficult.

Fortunately the error was admitted and hopefully lessons were learned by the Nat. Guard, police depts, and the powers-that-be. Hopefully those citizens with stolen property have them returned + compensation for any loss in condition.

-rvb

 

[El Cazador]

The bright lining to the house to house disarmament in New Orleans was the negative publicity the action brought, jump starting a lot of hard looking at defining government "intervention" in communities during emergencies, and that 33 states now have some form of "Castle Doctrine" law on their books, from "stand your ground" self-protection laws to reinforced home defense (true castle doctrine) laws.

By the way, it's Martial Law, as in having to do with war and the military, and not Marshal(l) Law, better known as the Marshall Plan, the humanitarian aid for rebuilding areas damaged by warfare.

 

[IndyGunworks]

The MILITARY was not involved in these actions. These were the actions of the New Orleans Police Department.

YOU ARE HIGHLY MISTAKEN

 

[IndyGunworks]

Huh...

Really I was part of that force...

Nope I can not recall ever being ordered to disarm Americans. I do remember Military units telling the Police that were disarming people to quit though...

Please post the video link so I can see what units were involved in these actions! Thank you!

search no more... My unit was.

 

[jennybird]

Innocence of a crime is not something that is to be proven and documented. That burdon is on the accuser. This kind of thinking is backwards to the way this country is supposed to be run.

To imply registration is needed is to imply that owning a gun is illegal and the registration and documentation is an exception to that illegal act.

Registration makes confiscation easier. It does not make it more difficult.

Fortunately the error was admitted and hopefully lessons were learned by the Nat. Guard, police depts, and the powers-that-be. Hopefully those citizens with stolen property have them returned + compensation for any loss in condition.

-rvb

Although I completely agree with your viewpoint on this, I must admit that I don't agree with the idea that registration implies something is illegal. We have to register our vehicles, register to vote, register for college courses, etc. Registration is a way of keeping track of something, not to make the illegal legal.

Other than that, I think you're spot on!

 

[Chefcook]

Innocence of a crime is not something that is to be proven and documented. That burdon is on the accuser. This kind of thinking is backwards to the way this country is supposed to be run.

To imply registration is needed is to imply that owning a gun is illegal and the registration and documentation is an exception to that illegal act.

Registration makes confiscation easier. It does not make it more difficult.

Fortunately the error was admitted and hopefully lessons were learned by the Nat. Guard, police depts, and the powers-that-be. Hopefully those citizens with stolen property have them returned + compensation for any loss in condition.

-rvb

They defiantly learned a lesson. They learned that they can invade our homes and take our firearms and no body is going to try to stop them or do **** about it...

 

[Roadie]

To me there is no reason for registration. The only thing it does is identify the law abiding gun owner and leaves the ones who are criminals to go about their business. It is an infringement of something that is not to be infringed.

EXACTLY!

Same thing goes for the anti-gun lobby. How does registration and/or stricter laws address the illegal firearms that are ALREADY out there? Do they seriously believe that criminals are going to register their weapons??

I found an interesting article online, part of it below:
From:
For teens, illegal guns easy to get on streets

Kent police Officer Paul Peterson said about half the people who have guns stolen from their homes or cars don't write down the serial numbers.
Police in other King County jurisdictions estimate that the number is even higher -- and say that's often how street criminals get their firearms.
"A gun may be stolen in Oregon, passed off for dope somewhere else, then given to somebody as a payment for a debt here," Peterson said.
"That's why we encourage any gun owners to take the responsibility to secure it and to write down the full make, model and serial number."
Responsible gun owners would never defend street thugs or illegal gun use, said Dave Workman, senior editor of Gun Week and author of "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities." And he said additional laws won't stop the criminals who already have no regard for them.
"I think if you really want to address the problem of disarming street thugs, you've got to enforce the existing statutes, which unfortunately often wind up getting plea-bargained away," he said. "If you stick them with an enhanced sentence for using an illegal gun in a crime, they're going to go away for a hell of a long time, and it's going to hurt."

I like the part about writing down our weapons serial numbers. This puts the ball in OUR court, not the Governments. If we have a weapon stolen, then choose to report the serial number, it is still our choice.

It already carries additional penalties when you use a gun in commission of a crime. Registration will not prevent the crime, nor will new laws. Enforce what we have, enforce it HARD.

 

[ATF Consumer]

They defiantly learned a lesson. They learned that they can invade our homes and take our firearms and no body is going to try to stop them or do **** about it...

Until they come try that crap at my house.

 

[rvb]

I don't agree with the idea that registration implies something is illegal. We have to register our vehicles, register to vote, register for college courses, etc. Registration is a way of keeping track of something, not to make the illegal legal.

The truth is, often times registration is a way to keep track of something while at the same time providing a legal exception to something otherwise illegal....

Some more relavent examples from existing criminal codes: Owning a machine gun or silencer is illegal, unless it is registered (in the NFRTR). Selling "too many" guns is illegal, unless you are registered (as an FFL). Carrying a gun is illegal, unless you are registered (with a state permit). It depends on how the law is written, and based on existing examples, I certainly imagine gun ownership would be (or would eventually be) illegal without proof of registration under any registration scheme. This violates the 2A concepts, plain and simple.

In these firearm-related examples, the burdon of proof is on the owner to PROOVE in the form of the gun registration and/or their SOT licensing, carry permit, etc. that they are exempt from what is otherwise a criminal act.

Note that the National Firearms Act and it's registration scheme did exactly what you say registration won't do, it caused the legal to become illegal. ie if not in the NFRTR by the prescribed date, it was illegal. (NFRTR = National Firearms Registration and Transfer Registry. Where all Title II (aka NFA aka "class 3") firearms are registered.) Some more food for thought is that the ATF admits that thousands of records are "missing" from the NFRTR so a piece of paper is the only thing keeping owners of those arms out of prison.

fwiw: it is illegal to drive on public roadways, unless your vehicle is registered.

I thought I would pull an example from IN code:
IC 35-47-5-8
Machine gun
Sec. 8. A person who owns or possesses a machine gun commits a Class C felony.
IC 35-47-5-10
Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
...
(7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine guns under applicable United States statutes.

The above exemption wording repeats dozens/hundreds of times through applicable State and Federal firearms codes... so I stand by what I say that registration would imply gun ownership to be illegal, with an exception for "proof of registration." And history is full of valid examples.

So that's something to consider when thinking "but we register cars..."
It's apples and oranges, IMO. And the "right to keep and drive sedans" is not in any constitution that I have seen.

-rvb

edit to add: I like to use the machine gun example because it's a perfect example of the slippery-slope that libs say doesn't exist.... where "reasonable registration" leads to an out-right ban, and only the government now has legal authority to have those kinds of arms.