Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[ChristianPatriot]

Ya but they don’t see it as a struggle or sin so as stated they won’t have a clue what you’re talking about. That was the main focus of the video. We know we have sin and need Christ, they don’t understand the need for repentance for something that isn’t sin.

Oh I know. Just a funny scenario in my head.

 

[ditcherman]

I just watched a video today of a guy who was gay but repented and became a Christian 25 years ago. He said gays don’t see being gay is a sin or wrong and you have to realize that in them. They think they are perfectly normal. They say and think “This is Who I am.” But that’s where they are wrong. It’s actually “How you are.” They have a faulty filter unable to see reality and truth from feelings and emotions.

Don’t we all? Maybe we’re not afflicted with the gayness, but none of us can see perfectly clearly imo. I’m sitting here polishing off a bag of chips at 11pm but I don’t have a problem with gluttony, nooo.
Just the general state of man.

Found it interesting. Wouldn’t go, wouldn’t participate in any way. Don’t want to be a partaker in another man’s sin.

I don’t mean to be coming off as an apologist for the gays here, because I’m not. I just think it’s hypocritical for us to pick on them so hard when we have sin in our camp as well.

Also not judging for the going/not going choice.

 

[foszoe]

I've not heard of that before. Why three? Does it matter if it was a no-fault divorce or clear cut adultery? Could they marry outside the church like Roman Catholics?

As far as I know, not being an expert on the matter since I haven't been concerned directly with it, It's 3 strikes you're out. The ONLY one I think does not apply is if you married BEFORE joining. In that case you may get a bye. The reason for the divorce itself plays no role. That's why you get 3, in recognition of God's condecension to mankind.

As for 3, I am sure we could come up with some symbolic meaning for it, but its more likely an arbitrarily chosen number.

 

[foszoe]

Found it interesting. Wouldn’t go, wouldn’t participate in any way. Don’t want to be a partaker in another man’s sin.

Just wanted to be clear, I wasn't formulating the question based on affirming a gay lifestyle in general, but rather, if it was your son, daughter, brother etc. How would you approach it.

I am not perusing the papers in search of any wedding to attend at random

 

[DragonGunner]

Don’t we all? Maybe we’re not afflicted with the gayness, but none of us can see perfectly clearly imo. I’m sitting here polishing off a bag of chips at 11pm but I don’t have a problem with gluttony, nooo.
Just the general state of man.



I don’t mean to be coming off as an apologist for the gays here, because I’m not. I just think it’s hypocritical for us to pick on them so hard when we have sin in our camp as well.

Also not judging for the going/not going choice.

How am I picking on them. Can you explain where you think I am? So not going to a gay wedding is me picking on them? The entire post was sharing thoughts and their persumptions so we might understand some things better so if and when we witness we understand better, in any attempts to help. I’m really puzzled by your comment. Should we compromise our convictions to appease them? Where have I said I’m without sin and we should hate the gays because that’s how this thread seems to be going.

 

[DragonGunner]

Just wanted to be clear, I wasn't formulating the question based on affirming a gay lifestyle in general, but rather, if it was your son, daughter, brother etc. How would you approach it.

I am not perusing the papers in search of any wedding to attend at random

I would approach it the same. It’s sin, I won’t be going nor will I ever accept it. I love you, please repent.

 

[foszoe]

nor will I ever accept it.

Could you expand upon that? I believe you are saying you would never accept the marriage as a real marriage?

 

[DragonGunner]

Could you expand upon that? I believe you are saying you would never accept the marriage as a real marriage?

That also. It’s not a real marriage, perhaps by man’s doctrine. Like abortion, being legal doesn’t mean it becomes right with God.

 

[foszoe]

That also. It’s not a real marriage, perhaps by man’s doctrine. Like abortion, being legal doesn’t mean it becomes right with God.

It it was that also, it seems there is more you are not saying. I would be interested in what else there is, if you are willing to say.

 

[DragonGunner]

It it was that also, it seems there is more you are not saying. I would be interested in what else there is, if you are willing to say.

Perhaps not that much. We just know by the scriptures that lifestyle for lack of a better word, is sin. It can’t ever be accepted as being ok. That seems to be a problem with many churches. I know folks that left churches because the pastor saying that being gay was no longer a sin and to be accepted. They left church then were persecuted by the pastors flying monkeys that they were sinning by judging. It’s a clown world out there.

 

[chipbennett]

Could you expand upon that? I believe you are saying you would never accept the marriage as a real marriage?

That is a matter for God, who defined the institution of marriage as a covenant relationship between one man and one woman. What I think of it is irrelevant. Whether or not I "accept" the marriage as a real marriage is irrelevant.

The thing is, I can separate the existence/status of a non-biblical marriage from my interaction with and love for the people involved in that relationship. I am called to love all people the same. Their sin is not against me, but against God; therefore, I need not attempt to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in counseling or convicting them. In all such situations, the people involved know exactly what my beliefs and biblical interpretation are. I need not pretend or ignore that I hold such beliefs/interpretations. It just doesn't impact how I treat/love/interact with anyone.

This is how my conscience addresses it, and I readily accept that others' conscience requires different stances.

 

[ditcherman]

How am I picking on them. Can you explain where you think I am? So not going to a gay wedding is me picking on them? The entire post was sharing thoughts and their persumptions so we might understand some things better so if and when we witness we understand better, in any attempts to help. I’m really puzzled by your comment. Should we compromise our convictions to appease them? Where have I said I’m without sin and we should hate the gays because that’s how this thread seems to be going.

I’m sorry, I should have not posted my second paragraph along with the original response that was more specifically to you.
I don’t think you’re picking on them, and your choice to attend or not is certainly not picking on them.

I believe there is a thin line between compromising our convictions to appease them and still trying to show them Gods love. It may be very well defined for many of us, and we may see that line in a different place as well.

It’s all very hard, imo.

 

[DragonGunner]

I’m sorry, I should have not posted my second paragraph along with the original response that was more specifically to you.
I don’t think you’re picking on them, and your choice to attend or not is certainly not picking on them.

I believe there is a thin line between compromising our convictions to appease them and still trying to show them Gods love. It may be very well defined for many of us, and we may see that line in a different place as well.

It’s all very hard, imo.

Thank you.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

That is a matter for God, who defined the institution of marriage as a covenant relationship between one man and one woman. What I think of it is irrelevant.

Another factor:

Marriage isn’t just the union of a man and a woman as ordained by God. It’s also a picture of Christ and the church. Without trying to sound too harsh, a gay marriage is a twisting of that union. Borderline blasphemy? That’s what Satan does. He takes something beautiful that God created and twists it into something else, but still says, “Look how beautiful this is. They just love each other.” A wedding is a celebration of marriage. So a gay wedding is a celebration of anti-marriage. It’s one thing to love people and treat them as images of God, which all people are. It’s another thing to participate in the celebration of something anti-God.

Yes we’re all guilty of gluttony, but would you attend an event specifically celebrating gluttony?

And I’m not talking about the Church pot-luck that’s designed for fellowshipping with the brethren, though I know those jokes are coming.

 

[ditcherman]

Another factor:

Marriage isn’t just the union of a man and a woman as ordained by God. It’s also a picture of Christ and the church. Without trying to sound too harsh, a gay marriage is a twisting of that union. Borderline blasphemy? That’s what Satan does. He takes something beautiful that God created and twists it into something else, but still says, “Look how beautiful this is. They just love each other.” A wedding is a celebration of marriage. So a gay wedding is a celebration of anti-marriage. It’s one thing to love people and treat them as images of God, which all people are. It’s another thing to participate in the celebration of something anti-God.

Yes we’re all guilty of gluttony, but would you attend an event specifically celebrating gluttony?

Haha well. I might.
But point taken and well said.

And I’m not talking about the Church pot-luck that’s designed for fellowshipping with the brethren, though I know those jokes are coming.

 

[chipbennett]

Another factor:

Marriage isn’t just the union of a man and a woman as ordained by God. It’s also a picture of Christ and the church. Without trying to sound too harsh, a gay marriage is a twisting of that union. Borderline blasphemy? That’s what Satan does. He takes something beautiful that God created and twists it into something else, but still says, “Look how beautiful this is. They just love each other.” A wedding is a celebration of marriage. So a gay wedding is a celebration of anti-marriage. It’s one thing to love people and treat them as images of God, which all people are. It’s another thing to participate in the celebration of something anti-God.

Yes we’re all guilty of gluttony, but would you attend an event specifically celebrating gluttony?

And I’m not talking about the Church pot-luck that’s designed for fellowshipping with the brethren, though I know those jokes are coming.

And that's why, if by attending such a ceremony, your conscience views such attendance as participating in the union itself, you should absolutely follow your conscience.

For me, I wouldn't view attendance as participating in (or endorsing) the union.

This is rather perfectly analogous to Paul's discussion of eating food sacrificed to idols.

 

[DragonGunner]

And that's why, if by attending such a ceremony, your conscience views such attendance as participating in the union itself, you should absolutely follow your conscience.

For me, I wouldn't view attendance as participating in (or endorsing) the union.

This is rather perfectly analogous to Paul's discussion of eating food sacrificed to idols.

Yes but Paul also warned if eating such things cause my weaker brother to faulter then I won’t eat such things or participate in. We also have the word to avoid even the appearance of evil. To me a gay marriage and such is pure evil towards Gods word. To participate would and could show the appearance of approving evil. Could this be a stumbling block to others? But totally agree we have to follow are conscience, but we also have to watch others as well.

 

[Cameramonkey]

With all due respect, If you're looking for something to offend you, then how are you any better than them?
I am totally convinced now that the Pharisees would have called Jesus "woke" if they had that term.

Just finding this thread again.

I wasnt offended. I was annoyed at how they very pointedly failed to apply the idea equally to show we should ALL do it regardless of our station in life. It was obviously purposefully one sided and therefore tone deaf. They are not as righteous as they seem to think they are.

I mean, if they had thrown just ONE instance going the other way (oppressed v oppressor) to show we ALL should do it, it would have been a more believable as a genuine statement. But they didnt. If they even considered it they probably afraid that one instance would get called out for reinforcing/supporting partriarchy, slavery, racism, etc.

 

[foszoe]

Weird how Google leads you to nothing like what you are looking for.

Mom asked me why we call ourselves sinners so much? It makes her feel like God promises victory to Christians but we don't claim it.

I ended up reading the following article. Made me think of the talk a few pages back about keeping Jewish dietary laws.

The Sin We Stopped Feeling Sorry For — Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church

No one ever mentions this one in Confession ….

www.holytrinity-lansing.org

 

[chipbennett]

Yes but Paul also warned if eating such things cause my weaker brother to faulter then I won’t eat such things or participate in. We also have the word to avoid even the appearance of evil. To me a gay marriage and such is pure evil towards Gods word. To participate would and could show the appearance of approving evil. Could this be a stumbling block to others? But totally agree we have to follow are conscience, but we also have to watch others as well.

Absolutely! I agree completely. We can't lead others into violating their own conscience through exercise of our own freedom of conscience.