Ban On Women In Combat Being Lifted

[2ndAmendmentdefender]

Maybe I am old fashioned, but I think placing our sisters, mothers and future mothers in harms way by way of the battlefield has placed the level of the Obama administration even lower!

The capture, torture and gang rapes of Jessica Lynch and Shoshana Johnson, a single mother, will be duplictaed again and again.

We need to spare our women from the carnage and cruelty of war!

Real Men don't send their women to fight their battles!

 

[RockofStrength]

Women are already being attached to these type units and serving successfully. Assigning them is just recognizing that enough women are capable of meeting the standards set for those units. As far as getting pregnant, well gentlemen, that requires your involvement, be responsible.

It's not like soldiers on leave have sex with other people or anything. It's not like women can choose to have sex just like male soldiers have since soldiering became a profession.

If the women can meet every single standard every man is required too, then while I disagree I have no grounds for their not participating.

I still see pregnancies and the issue of potential rapes being an issue. Seeing a dead man's corpse paraded with obvious tool-inflicted wounds is one thing, seeing a woman being openly raped on camera is another. And there is nothing, no training, no surgery, no nothing that can prevent that from happening.

 

[Lonestar6]

If women want to earn a set of crossed rifles, then they should have to meet the same PT, height/weight, and uniform standards as the men. Currently they do not. IMO, nothing good will come of women in line infantry units.

There are plenty of women who max the APFT while their male counterparts barely meet standard. Run your finger across the table and I believe you will find those women have exceeded the standard. Same is seen for height/weight. Seeing we all wear the same uniform I am not sure of the issue there, unless you mean hair length...which is easily fixed.

 

[Lonestar6]

i think if they do it right (i.e. make women prove themselves in the same tests the men do) that there will be very few women who actually want to be in combat that actually get sent there.

You might want to check the statistics of women who have been in combat in the last decade.

 

[MikeDVB]

Personally - I have no issues with a woman serving in a combat position under a few very simple conditions:

• They are held to the same standards as their male counterparts.
• If they fail to perform their duties, they are dealt with just as a male who fails to perform their duties would be dealt with.

The whole pregnancy thing - every man who is in a combat position knows that they could be captured and tortured, etc... A woman in a combat position would obviously be at the same risk (if not more, possibly being specifically targeted by the enemy) for that in addition to sexual assault/rape/pregnancy.

Unfortunately the possibility of being raped/becoming pregnant exists for a woman regardless of whether she's in a combat position in the military or walking down the street in an average community, but I'd say it's almost certain to happen if she is captured as a prisoner of war.

 

[Booya]

There are plenty of women who max the APFT while their male counterparts barely meet standard. Run your finger across the table and I believe you will find those women have exceeded the standard. Same is seen for height/weight. Seeing we all wear the same uniform I am not sure of the issue there, unless you mean hair length...which is easily fixed.

I've never even seen a female Marine that could max out the male PFT. There might be 1 or 2 out there, but I've not seen them. As far as I'm concerned, the PFT doesn't come close to measuring where they need to be physically. How many out there can lift a limp body out of a tank? Can drag 2 limp bodies with full gear 50yds out of a kill zone fast enough to not get mowed down...

Like I said they may exist, just haven't seen them...

 

[Booya]

Ask Marine Capt Katie Petronio how she feels about it....

 

[XSVskill]

I've never even seen a female Marine that could max out the male PFT. There might be 1 or 2 out there, but I've not seen them. As far as I'm concerned, the PFT doesn't come close to measuring where they need to be physically. How many out there can lift a limp body out of a tank? Can drag 2 limp bodies with full gear 50yds out of a kill zone fast enough to not get mowed down...

Like I said they may exist, just haven't seen them...

^^^this...I've never seen a WM that could max out a male PFT either. show me 1 female marine that can buddy drag a 200 pound marine with 80 pounds of gear on and I will show you 1000 that can't. There might be a few out there, but they are most deffinately the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Ask Marine Capt Katie Petronio how she feels about it....

Is she one of the 2 women that went thru some particular Marine training and talked about how hard it was on her body physically?

 

[Lonestar6]

I've never even seen a female Marine that could max out the male PFT. There might be 1 or 2 out there, but I've not seen them. As far as I'm concerned, the PFT doesn't come close to measuring where they need to be physically. How many out there can lift a limp body out of a tank? Can drag 2 limp bodies with full gear 50yds out of a kill zone fast enough to not get mowed down...

Like I said they may exist, just haven't seen them...

My point is that a female that max's the female test or comes close will exceed the male test standard.

As for the strength component, most of the men I know could not accomplish the strength feats you suggest here.

 

[Bunnykid68]

My point is that a female that max's the female test or comes close will exceed the male test standard.

As for the strength component, most of the men I know could not accomplish the strength feats you suggest here.

Keywords right there, the female test. All test should be equal. A lot of men cannot even close to passing some of the standard test. Keyword being STANDARD TEST. It should be the same test for everyone.

 

[RockofStrength]

My point is that a female that max's the female test or comes close will exceed the male test standard.

As for the strength component, most of the men I know could not accomplish the strength feats you suggest here.

Odd, I thought the women wanted to be treated as men. What's up with a female standard and a male standard?

 

[XSVskill]

My point is that a female that max's the female test or comes close will exceed the male test standard.

As for the strength component, most of the men I know could not accomplish the strength feats you suggest here.

In every unit I have ever been in, a 1st class PFT score is the standard. If you score less than that you are put on remedial pt(extra workouts). A female 1st class PFT'er would not score a 1st class on the male PFT.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Odd, I thought the women wanted to be treated as men. What's up with a female standard and a male standard?

You cannot expect them to take the same test now do you? That wouldn't be fair.

 

[Lonestar6]

Odd, I thought the women wanted to be treated as men. What's up with a female standard and a male standard?

The original premise was women could not meet the male standard. I demonstrated the point that they can and many do. There are many different physical standards in the military. The base Army, Navy and Air Force physical standards are all different. Within the Army special operations physical standards are higher than infantry standards. There are different gender physical standards AND different age standards within the gender physical standards.

But I think you already know this and are just grinding an ax.

 

[model60]

There is NO test or standard to prepare one for personal combat neither can you rely on your gender to give you an edge. Having said that, I am against it; I would not wish it on my sons, certainly not on my daughter or granddaughter.

 

[Lonestar6]

There is NO test or standard to prepare one for personal combat neither can you rely on your gender to give you an edge. Having said that, I am against it; I would not wish it on my sons, certainly not on my daughter or granddaughter.

Now THAT is a statement I can support.

 

[RockofStrength]

The original premise was women could not meet the male standard. I demonstrated the point that they can and many do. There are many different physical standards in the military. The base Army, Navy and Air Force physical standards are all different. Within the Army special operations physical standards are higher than infantry standards. There are different gender physical standards AND different age standards within the gender physical standards.

But I think you already know this and are just grinding an ax.

I know nothing of military standards, and honestly I could care less. The idea of including women in jobs that could be filled by a man, then setting two different standards for the exact same job for no other reason than that they have XX instead of XY chromosomes, is ignorant. Particularly when we have at this point had little issue filling recruitment and when it is done largely to score points on the "I'm Diverse, woohoo!" chart.

 

[CombatRex]

I have mixed feelings on it. Having two tours in Iraq I have seen women pull their weight and others that can't. I remember walking behind a gal, who was so short her M16, which was slung over her back, the muzzle appeared to be just a few inches off the ground. She had on all the battle rattle, and on her shoulder was a M2 (no barrel) and she was humping it down the road. I was impressed. I will tell you there are women that are just as mentally tough and hooahh as the men. That being said, I am not particularly in favor of it, but if they can meet the standards without them being watered down, more power to them. But they should ask the Israelis how it worked out for them. They tried it, then stopped it. Women did not fare well when captured by Hezbollah.

 

[Cerberus]

I've been in a combat arms unit that had females attached, and let's just say it was a LOT of trouble. This is nothing but political pandering that in the end will degrade the military even lower than it already is.