AYOOB: IS IT TIME TO RETIRE THE 1911?

[edporch]

NO it's not time to retire the 1911, that's crazy!

 

[Mgderf]

Sounds like a Chinese way of thinking.
Korean War seems to be where they tested it.

I believe it was actually Stalin.

 

[DadSmith]

I believe it was actually Stalin.

Yep he was one who tested that also.

 

[Shooter5]

The single stack 1911 is an elegant and brilliantly designed firearm. JMB is still the best! If you want a double stack instead of the still unsurpassed 1911, take a look at the also finely designed Browning Hi Power.

 

[STAGE 2]

Might be time to retire Ayoob. . . .

This. Someone who’s claim to fame is having been a part time police officer in a tiny New England town and who has never been involved in a defensive shooting but has at least two negligent discharges to his name is someone we all agree shouldn’t be an authority on anything firearms. But if you have a cool sounding name and shill for gun rags then presto… instant gun guru.

Sorry, but I take my legal advice from those who practice law and my defensive training from those with a legitimate resume and who have seen the elephant. Ayoob is neither.

 

[88E30M50]

I really wish some of you had actually read the article

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

As for me, I read the article and know he was singing the praises of the 1911, so my post (#5) was both agreeing with him and a response to the clickbait headline...

 

[Robert Richardson]

This. Someone who’s claim to fame is having been a part time police officer in a tiny New England town and who has never been involved in a defensive shooting but has at least two negligent discharges to his name is someone we all agree shouldn’t be an authority on anything firearms. But if you have a cool sounding name and shill for gun rags then presto… instant gun guru.

Sorry, but I take my legal advice from those who practice law and my defensive training from those with a legitimate resume and who have seen the elephant. Ayoob is neither.

You should do a little more research on the man. I do understand jealousy though.

 

[erasure]

Forgetting all the important matters. Like when're we getting a 1911 in 30 super carry.

 

[88E30M50]

As for me, I read the article and know he was singing the praises of the 1911, so my post (#5) was both agreeing with him and a response to the clickbait headline...

I know that a lot of you did but there have been a bunch that obviously have not.

 

[Mij]

I know that a lot of you did but there have been a bunch that obviously have not.

Been reading him for years, his magazine articles his books his testimony as a defense professional witness in many trials his family history. I’m not sure the phrase “ we all agree” can be intelligently applied. JMO

 

[STAGE 2]

You should do a little more research on the man. I do understand jealousy though.

I’ve done my research. That’s why what I stated is 100% accurate. You should google Grantham, NH. Huge metropolis of just over 3000 people. Last time I spoke with him several years ago he admitted that he has never been involved in a defensive shooting. Pretty sure that hasn’t changed since we’d all hear about it in his articles. What he has written about are his two negligent discharges, one fairly recently.

So we have a part time cop from a nowhere town whose never had to defend himself with a firearm who hails himself as an expert in law enforcement tactics and defensive shooting. Sorry not buying.

He’s famous because he’s been writing for the gun magazines since the 1970s, and I’ll give him credit where it’s due. He is a good writer and he has done a fair amount of research into all things guns. But at some point in time I think he fancied himself a Bill Jordan or Skeeter Skelton but forgot all of the things those guys did to become what they were.

I will also note he is not totally supportive of the 2a as he has in the past stated that there should be mandatory licensing for people who want to ccw including skills, written and medical testing. No bueno.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Forgetting all the important matters. Like when're we getting a 1911 in 30 super carry.

Check Nighthawk

 

[cedartop]

This. Someone who’s claim to fame is having been a part time police officer in a tiny New England town and who has never been involved in a defensive shooting but has at least two negligent discharges to his name is someone we all agree shouldn’t be an authority on anything firearms. But if you have a cool sounding name and shill for gun rags then presto… instant gun guru.

Sorry, but I take my legal advice from those who practice law and my defensive training from those with a legitimate resume and who have seen the elephant. Ayoob is neither.

Not going to argue your facts about Ayoob, I have heard them before and I would guess are more or less accurate. What I will say is, so? What does any of that have to do with the article in question? His decades in the gun related business and extensive education, along with being a long time user of the 1911 along with great effectiveness with the platform surely makes his opinion as valid as any other talking head.

As to seeing the elephant, highly overated for most of what the average person needs to learn. When I attended US Army Infantry basic in 89 there was only one drill instructor in our entire battalion with any combat experience. Does that make everything we learned worthless? When I was a patrol officer there were a few instances where I would have been morally and legally justified to use deadly force, I did not. If I had, would I have been granted some special teaching ability out of the blue? The military often brings in competitive shooting champions and specialists to teach various SOF groups, is nothing they learn from them worthwhile?

There are many cases of 70 year old grandmother's defending themselves with firearms yet I don't see anyone lining up to take classes from them. Why not? Their experience is probably more relevant to the regular guy or gal who carries for self defense than a soldier shooting from one mountain top to another or a SWAT member who was involved in a proactive shooting event. I know a number of soldiers and police who have "seen the elephant" and yet survived due to no great skill of their own. Should we seek them out?

Now give me someone who has real world experience and performed correctly as a result of their training and is able to convey that in an efficient and relevant manner, sure, then you have something.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I’ve done my research. That’s why what I stated is 100% accurate. You should google Grantham, NH. Huge metropolis of just over 3000 people. Last time I spoke with him several years ago he admitted that he has never been involved in a defensive shooting. Pretty sure that hasn’t changed since we’d all hear about it in his articles. What he has written about are his two negligent discharges, one fairly recently.

So we have a part time cop from a nowhere town whose never had to defend himself with a firearm who hails himself as an expert in law enforcement tactics and defensive shooting. Sorry not buying.

He’s famous because he’s been writing for the gun magazines since the 1970s, and I’ll give him credit where it’s due. He is a good writer and he has done a fair amount of research into all things guns. But at some point in time I think he fancied himself a Bill Jordan or Skeeter Skelton but forgot all of the things those guys did to become what they were.

I will also note he is not totally supportive of the 2a as he has in the past stated that there should be mandatory licensing for people who want to ccw including skills, written and medical testing. No bueno.

I get it, you don't like the 1911 so it becomes a attack on the messenger.
I'm sure that you have impressive credentials to present to us.
I'll wait for you to post them.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Not going to argue your facts about Ayoob, I have heard them before and I would guess are more or less accurate. What I will say is, so? What does any of that have to do with the article in question? His decades in the gun related business and extensive education, along with being a long time user of the 1911 along with great effectiveness with the platform surely makes his opinion as valid as any other talking head.

As to seeing the elephant, highly overated for most of what the average person needs to learn. When I attended US Army Infantry basic in 89 there was only one drill instructor in our entire battalion with any combat experience. Does that make everything we learned worthless? When I was a patrol officer there were a few instances where I would have been morally and legally justified to use deadly force, I did not. If I had, would I have been granted some special teaching ability out of the blue? The military often brings in competitive shooting champions and specialists to teach various SOF groups, is nothing they learn from them worthwhile?

There are many cases of 70 year old grandmother's defending themselves with firearms yet I don't see anyone lining up to take classes from them. Why not? Their experience is probably more relevant to the regular guy or gal who carries for self defense than a soldier shooting from one mountain top to another or a SWAT member who was involved in a proactive shooting event. I know a number of soldiers and police who have "seen the elephant" and yet survived due to no great skill of their own. Should we seek them out?

Now give me someone who has real world experience and performed correctly as a result of their training and is able to convey that in an efficient and relevant manner, sure, then you have something.

Well said sir.
Wish we still had the reputation point system. + 10

 

[STAGE 2]

I get it, you don't like the 1911 so it becomes a attack on the messenger.
I'm sure that you have impressive credentials to present to us.
I'll wait for you to post them.

I love the 1911. Carry one at least once a week. What I don’t like are summer patriots who care more about profit than the truth and Ayoob has demonstrated on several occasions that he has no issue with this.

 

[wcd]

I love the 1911. Carry one at least once a week. What I don’t like are summer patriots who care more about profit than the truth and Ayoob has demonstrated on several occasions that he has no issue with this.

So you carry a 1911 at least once a week? And Summer Patriot? Please provide a little more information here.

 

[STAGE 2]

So you carry a 1911 at least once a week? And Summer Patriot? Please provide a little more information here.

I was referring to Ayoob and his lack of support for the 2A insisting that people should be denied their freedom until they have jumped through hoops that he deems appropriate.

 

[STAGE 2]

Not going to argue your facts about Ayoob, I have heard them before and I would guess are more or less accurate. What I will say is, so? What does any of that have to do with the article in question? His decades in the gun related business and extensive education, along with being a long time user of the 1911 along with great effectiveness with the platform surely makes his opinion as valid as any other talking head.

Depends on who the other talking head is and what each person is espousing. Who the messenger is isn't an irrelevant thing, particularly since it can clarify the message or more specifically the bias behind it.

As to seeing the elephant, highly overated for most of what the average person needs to learn. When I attended US Army Infantry basic in 89 there was only one drill instructor in our entire battalion with any combat experience. Does that make everything we learned worthless?

No, for the simple reason that he wasn't teaching you from his own experience. He was teaching what the military told him to teach which (hopefully) is an accumulation of lessons learned from the prior combat experience of others. Thats far different than firearms instructors all of whom are selling their own resume as their qualifications.

When I was a patrol officer there were a few instances where I would have been morally and legally justified to use deadly force, I did not. If I had, would I have been granted some special teaching ability out of the blue? The military often brings in competitive shooting champions and specialists to teach various SOF groups, is nothing they learn from them worthwhile?

There are many cases of 70 year old grandmother's defending themselves with firearms yet I don't see anyone lining up to take classes from them. Why not? Their experience is probably more relevant to the regular guy or gal who carries for self defense than a soldier shooting from one mountain top to another or a SWAT member who was involved in a proactive shooting event. I know a number of soldiers and police who have "seen the elephant" and yet survived due to no great skill of their own. Should we seek them out?

Now give me someone who has real world experience and performed correctly as a result of their training and is able to convey that in an efficient and relevant manner, sure, then you have something.

I agree that being involved in a defensive shooting doesn't make you qualified to be an instructor. I also agree that being a police office doesn't qualify you either. However just because these things in isolation dont make someone into something else, doesn't mean that its crazy to have a set of standards for a particular job, especially if one is to hail themselves as an expert.

I expect people who consider themselves as experts in law enforcement tactics to have made hundreds of felony arrests. I expect people who teach defensive shooting techniques to have been involved in defensive shootings. Nothing vets theory like the real world and if you dont have real world experience then a theory is all you have.