AOC

[MCgrease08]

So people have a natural right to do illegal things?

No, but once they are accused of doing illegal things they are afforded the same rights under the law as everyone else, no matter how they got here. At least that's my understanding.

Citizens do illegal things all the time. The Constitution doesn't protect them for prosecution either. But just doing something illegal doesn't make rights evaporate. In fact, many of the Constitutionally protected rights are in place specifically to provide certain legal protections to the accused.

 

[Jaybird1980]

So people have a natural right to do illegal things?

What? I have no idea how that's what you came up with.

You have your rights until due process strips you of them.

It's in the 5th and 14th amendment, and quoted in post 1385 of this thread.


Scooped by MCgrease

 

[spencer rifle]

Just to be clear, what that seems to mean is that once they are just standing on US soil, no matter how they got here, they now have the due process and equal protection rights, same as citizens.

 

[KG1]

The Constitution, as written, does not give the Federal government any authority to control immigration.

You are correct. It does not explicitly mention it in the Constitution as written. The Supreme Court basically granted the federal government exclusive power over immigration through interpretation citing Article I and II of the Constitution to establish case law.

In Fong Yue Ting v. The United States, the Court held that the federal government’s power to regulate and enforce immigration was derived from its foreign policy power, which is located in Article I and Article II of the U.S. Constitution.[

So basically, it's an implied power loosely based on the foreign policy power provision at best.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Just to be clear, what that seems to mean is that once they are just standing on US soil, no matter how they got here, they now have the due process and equal protection rights, same as citizens.

Unless it's a military action.

Which is why the border should be secured.

 

[gregr]

You've already made clear before that there are areas where you feel that the government can just ignore our rights. ICE is another great example of that. Who needs rights and freedom as long as the border is safe!

What the hell kind of craziness are you babbling now?

 

[KLB]

Just to be clear, what that seems to mean is that once they are just standing on US soil, no matter how they got here, they now have the due process and equal protection rights, same as citizens.

Yep. That is exactly how it works.

 

[CampingJosh]

Just to be clear, what that seems to mean is that once they are just standing on US soil, no matter how they got here, they now have the due process and equal protection rights, same as citizens.

Also, unless at war, all persons everywhere should have those same equal protections from the US government.

Natural rights aren't subject to imaginary lines on the terrain.

 

[jamil]

If you entered this country illegally you forfeited your rights as you are not a citizen and have broken the law, Not sure how you want to handle illegals or the border so please expound.

I am a US citizen. What right do they have to interrupt my travel.

 

[flatlander]

I am a US citizen. What right do they have to interrupt my travel.

Me to. No sobriety check points either than right since I don't drink? I know, somebody kills somebody but lets not set up "checkpoints" and just say screw it. Where is the line?

 

[actaeon277]

Me to. No sobriety check points either than right since I don't drink? I know, somebody kills somebody but lets not set up "checkpoints" and just say screw it. Where is the line?

There shouldn't be sobriety checkpoints.
NONE

Even police officers have stated that money spent on those would be better spent on Officers on the road, looking for people that look like they're driving under the influence.

 

[gregr]

Section 1 of the 14th Amendment does define "citizens" but it also expressly says, "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Oh brother, this nonsense again? The United States Constitution was written with United States CITIZENS in mind, and FOR United States CITIZENS expressly. No, we do not abuse people, but non-citizens, and ESPECIALLY ILLEGAL ALIENS are NOT fully protected by the UNITED STATES Constitution. Geez!

 

[actaeon277]

Oh brother, this nonsense again? The United States Constitution was written with United States CITIZENS in mind, and FOR United States CITIZENS expressly. No, we do not abuse people, but non-citizens, and ESPECIALLY ILLEGAL ALIENS are NOT fully protected by the UNITED STATES Constitution. Geez!

The 4th amend doesn't apply to them?

 

[gregr]

The 4th amend doesn't apply to them?

Not particularly. The Constitution was written to protect U.S. CITIZENS from an overbearing government. Border enforcement was supposed to protect U.S. CITIZENS from THEM.

 

[BigRed]

I get it. I'm not saying we should abolish ICE by any means. But seeing these things as completely black and white can be shortsighted. You clearly see benefits and advantages of having an agency tasked with dealing with illegal immigration. So do I. But that's a separate idea from being outraged at a member of Congress advocating for the abolishment of an agency.

I don't want an anti-gun hack making the same "appeal to authority" argument you just did regarding the ATF. They could easily make the same statement you did by replacing COCKROACHES illegal aliens, with illegal guns.

I don't think any government agency should be off limits from oversite, evaluation and scrutiny of its effectiveness. Each should be evaluated and funded based on the merits and not just because it's a law enforcement agency or some other term we can get behind.

I think part of the reason we're so divided as a nation these days is because we don't always take the time to consider what the outcome might lead to if the situation were reversed.

It would be hypocritical to rally behind a member of Congress who wants to abolish the ATF or EPA or USDA or Dept. Of Ed. or the FDA etc, while claiming outrage that a member from an opposing party would take the same stance with an agency we believe has merit.

And then there are some who would happily see the central state dissolved thus paying favor to none of the "agencies".

 

[actaeon277]

Not particularly. The Constitution was written to protect U.S. CITIZENS from an overbearing government. Border enforcement was supposed to protect U.S. CITIZENS from THEM.

200 years kinda disagrees with you.

Do Non-Citizens have Constitutional Rights? | Maniatis Law PLLC

There is a misconception that the U.S. Constitution applies only to U.S. citizens. Some passages and phrases in our laws ... Immigration

www.maniatislawoffice.com

 

[flatlander]

I'll ask again where does everybody set the line as far as this conversation goes?
Everybody can roam at will around the U.S. as long as they fly below the radar if they come here ILLEGALLY?
All people can be stopped for no reason?
Comments on where YOU draw the line please?

 

[gregr]

200 years kinda disagrees with you.

Do Non-Citizens have Constitutional Rights? | Maniatis Law PLLC

There is a misconception that the U.S. Constitution applies only to U.S. citizens. Some passages and phrases in our laws ... Immigration

www.maniatislawoffice.com

look, they`re criminals by virtue of simply being here. You get locked up in prison and see what rights you have. NONE. Same for those who crash out border, take our social services monies and then flip us the bird. Sorry, but hell no.

 

[gregr]

I'll ask again where does everybody set the line as far as this conversation goes?
Everybody can roam at will around the U.S. as long as they fly below the radar if they come here ILLEGALLY?
All people can be stopped for no reason?
Comments on where YOU draw the line please?

Oh, too many, here and otherwise would rather appease and care for illegal aliens than protect the integrity of the U.S. border and our uniquely distinct American heritage. I suggest they leave their doors unlocked since they`re so free with the country being broken into.

 

[actaeon277]

look, they`re criminals by virtue of simply being here. You get locked up in prison and see what rights you have. NONE. Same for those who crash out border, take our social services monies and then flip us the bird. Sorry, but hell no.

criminals still have their rights. the 4th amendment
illegals still have their rights.

Remember when people said, these rights are derived from God.
Did God say only people "here" have those rights.

criminals are deprived of liberty, AFTER due process is followed.
the same with an illegal alien. You can't just walk up to anyone and say, "you're an illegal" and then deport them. You have to follow due process.