AOC

[MCgrease08]

Huh. Let`s see...ICE protects the borders...at least however much the current administration allows them to do their jobs. The goons at atf pervert their authority and abuse their power to attack law abiding gun owners and gun dealers...I see so conflict here by keeping ICE and purging a rogue atf outfit that attacks the Constitution.

I get it. I'm not saying we should abolish ICE by any means. But seeing these things as completely black and white can be shortsighted. You clearly see benefits and advantages of having an agency tasked with dealing with illegal immigration. So do I. But that's a separate idea from being outraged at a member of Congress advocating for the abolishment of an agency.

I don't want an anti-gun hack making the same "appeal to authority" argument you just did regarding the ATF. They could easily make the same statement you did by replacing COCKROACHES illegal aliens, with illegal guns.

I don't think any government agency should be off limits from oversite, evaluation and scrutiny of its effectiveness. Each should be evaluated and funded based on the merits and not just because it's a law enforcement agency or some other term we can get behind.

I think part of the reason we're so divided as a nation these days is because we don't always take the time to consider what the outcome might lead to if the situation were reversed.

It would be hypocritical to rally behind a member of Congress who wants to abolish the ATF or EPA or USDA or Dept. Of Ed. or the FDA etc, while claiming outrage that a member from an opposing party would take the same stance with an agency we believe has merit.

 

[Leadeye]

She got that seat because big computer money sat down with Tammany and opened a checkbook. The Tammany boys probably threw out a high number and it was called what ever it was.

 

[flatlander]

 

[BugI02]

Big computer money put her in that job, I would imagine that's who is sleeping with her.

Gates might tap that

 

[BugI02]

Where has T Lex been?

Evil people like Trump and I ruined his safe space by turning out to be correct

 

[Leadeye]

Gates might tap that

Somebody should, for what that's costing them.

 

[jamil]

Gates might tap that

Eh, given Gate's apparent proclivities, I'm gonna say she's probably way to hold for him.

 

[gregr]

Actually a lot of that is true of ICE too. Congress gave them way too much authority in way too much territory. Keep them on the borders and ports of entry where they belong.

 

[gregr]

View attachment 183085

Mr. Ed wants his TEETH back...

 

[gregr]

I get it. I'm not saying we should abolish ICE by any means. But seeing these things as completely black and white can be shortsighted. You clearly see benefits and advantages of having an agency tasked with dealing with illegal immigration. So do I. But that's a separate idea from being outraged at a member of Congress advocating for the abolishment of an agency.

I don't want an anti-gun hack making the same "appeal to authority" argument you just did regarding the ATF. They could easily make the same statement you did by replacing COCKROACHES illegal aliens, with illegal guns.

I don't think any government agency should be off limits from oversite, evaluation and scrutiny of its effectiveness. Each should be evaluated and funded based on the merits and not just because it's a law enforcement agency or some other term we can get behind.

I think part of the reason we're so divided as a nation these days is because we don't always take the time to consider what the outcome might lead to if the situation were reversed.

It would be hypocritical to rally behind a member of Congress who wants to abolish the ATF or EPA or USDA or Dept. Of Ed. or the FDA etc, while claiming outrage that a member from an opposing party would take the same stance with an agency we believe has merit.

I truly appreciate your calm and thoughtfulness. I kind of wish I was able to look at things at a high level as you seem to be able to, but, in the case of the atf, no go. We have TOO many federal law enforcement agencies. cia, fbi, atf, homeland security, we already know that the fbi has had issues for decades, everything from Ruby Ridge, to a rogue agent having an affair and pledging that Trump would NOT become President, to the liar, comey. We do not need so many Gestapo-potential federal police agencies. Neither do we need members of the U.S. House, no matter how unqualified and looney they are, calling for the abolition of ICE. That`s as ignorant as saying that you want to defund the police.
Dude, it`s time conservatives fought back and fought back TOUGH. We`ve made way too many compromises on Natural Rights, and with all the gun laws on the books, many which don`t get enforced, the left is still screaming for "common sense" gun laws. This has got to stop, and it`s got to stop NOW. Our borders MUST be secured and the flow of illegals STOPPED, and this government MUST cease their attacks on the rights of law-abiding Americans.

 

[MCgrease08]

I truly appreciate your calm and thoughtfulness. I kind of wish I was able to look at things at a high level as you seem to be able to, but, in the case of the atf, no go. We have TOO many federal law enforcement agencies. cia, fbi, atf, homeland security, we already know that the fbi has had issues for decades, everything from Ruby Ridge, to a rogue agent having an affair and pledging that Trump would NOT become President, to the liar, comey. We do not need so many Gestapo-potential federal police agencies. Neither do we need members of the U.S. House, no matter how unqualified and looney they are, calling for the abolition of ICE. That`s as ignorant as saying that you want to defund the police.
Dude, it`s time conservatives fought back and fought back TOUGH. We`ve made way too many compromises on Natural Rights, and with all the gun laws on the books, many which don`t get enforced, the left is still screaming for "common sense" gun laws. This has got to stop, and it`s got to stop NOW. Our borders MUST be secured and the flow of illegals STOPPED, and this government MUST cease their attacks on the rights of law-abiding Americans.

You pretty much just made my point with your comments I highlighted in red.

In AOC's mind, ICE is a Gestapo-potential federal police agency. You and I may not agree, but if we're going to advocate for cutting back or downright eliminating corrupt law enforcement agencies like the NSA, FBI, CIA, ATF or others, we have to allow for the same from the other side. There should be robust public policy debates about the merits of each agency.

I'll add something else worth pondering. If all of those agencies are corrupt and politically motivated (and we know they are), what are the odds that ICE isn't at least a little bit corrupt and politically motivated?

 

[gregr]

You pretty much just made my point with your comments I highlighted in red.

In AOC's mind, ICE is a Gestapo-potential federal police agency. You and I may not agree, but if we're going to advocate for cutting back or downright eliminating corrupt law enforcement agencies like the NSA, FBI, CIA, ATF or others, we have to allow for the same from the other side. Thee should be robust public policy debates about the merits of each agency.

I'll add something else worth pondering. If all of those agencies are corrupt and politically motivated (and we know they are), what are the odds that ICE isn't at least a little bit corrupt and politically motivated?

All I can try to hold onto, is how VITAL it is to secure our borders, and I`m just about up for ANYTHING that accomplishes that. When a nation has NO borders, they cease to be a nation.

 

[MCgrease08]

All I can try to hold onto, is how VITAL it is to secure our borders, and I`m just about up for ANYTHING that accomplishes that. When a nation has NO borders, they cease to be a nation.

I completely agree, but clearly what we're doing ain't working. It doesn't matter how many agencies we have when they've been completely neutered and told to stand down.

 

[BugI02]

I truly appreciate your calm and thoughtfulness. I kind of wish I was able to look at things at a high level as you seem to be able to, but, in the case of the atf, no go. We have TOO many federal law enforcement agencies. cia, fbi, atf, homeland security, we already know that the fbi has had issues for decades, everything from Ruby Ridge, to a rogue agent having an affair and pledging that Trump would NOT become President, to the liar, comey. We do not need so many Gestapo-potential federal police agencies. Neither do we need members of the U.S. House, no matter how unqualified and looney they are, calling for the abolition of ICE. That`s as ignorant as saying that you want to defund the police.
Dude, it`s time conservatives fought back and fought back TOUGH. We`ve made way too many compromises on Natural Rights, and with all the gun laws on the books, many which don`t get enforced, the left is still screaming for "common sense" gun laws. This has got to stop, and it`s got to stop NOW. Our borders MUST be secured and the flow of illegals STOPPED, and this government MUST cease their attacks on the rights of law-abiding Americans.

And while we're at it, the House of Representatives DOES NOT need a private police force. The Capitol Police should be a division of the DC police and answerable to the people and funded out of the DC police budget not out of a federal appropriation. No federalized police

 

[KLB]

All I can try to hold onto, is how VITAL it is to secure our borders, and I`m just about up for ANYTHING that accomplishes that. When a nation has NO borders, they cease to be a nation.

You've already made clear before that there are areas where you feel that the government can just ignore our rights. ICE is another great example of that. Who needs rights and freedom as long as the border is safe!

 

[Hawkeye]

I truly appreciate your calm and thoughtfulness. I kind of wish I was able to look at things at a high level as you seem to be able to, but, in the case of the atf, no go. We have TOO many federal law enforcement agencies. cia, fbi, atf, homeland security, we already know that the fbi has had issues for decades, everything from Ruby Ridge, to a rogue agent having an affair and pledging that Trump would NOT become President, to the liar, comey. We do not need so many Gestapo-potential federal police agencies. Neither do we need members of the U.S. House, no matter how unqualified and looney they are, calling for the abolition of ICE. That`s as ignorant as saying that you want to defund the police.
Dude, it`s time conservatives fought back and fought back TOUGH. We`ve made way too many compromises on Natural Rights, and with all the gun laws on the books, many which don`t get enforced, the left is still screaming for "common sense" gun laws. This has got to stop, and it`s got to stop NOW. Our borders MUST be secured and the flow of illegals STOPPED, and this government MUST cease their attacks on the rights of law-abiding Americans.

And you have just touched on some of the well known ones. TO name a few more:

Secret Service
US Marshals Service
IRS Special Agents
Post Office Inspectors
National Parks Police
F&W
Federal Protective Services
Diplomatic Security Service
Amtrak Police
Supreme Court Police
Hoover Dam Police

The list of armed Federal Police agencies is frigging amazing

To name a few more.

 

[Hawkeye]

And while we're at it, the House of Representatives DOES NOT need a private police force. The Capitol Police should be a division of the DC police and answerable to the people and funded out of the DC police budget not out of a federal appropriation. No federalized police

I'll disagree with you on this. I don't want the policing agency for Congress to be run and funded by the DC. But what's wrong with making them an arm of the US Marshals Service? Along with the cops that we have for the Supreme Court and other Courts.

 

[flatlander]

You've already made clear before that there are areas where you feel that the government can just ignore our rights. ICE is another great example of that. Who needs rights and freedom as long as the border is safe!

If you entered this country illegally you forfeited your rights as you are not a citizen and have broken the law, Not sure how you want to handle illegals or the border so please expound.

 

[Hawkeye]

If you entered this country illegally you forfeited your rights as you are not a citizen and have broken the law, Not sure how you want to handle illegals or the border so please expound.

Merely committing or alleged committing of an illegal act does not forfeit rights.

 

[flatlander]

Merely committing or alleged committing of an illegal act does not forfeit rights.

Anybody coming into the United States illegally should be considered a national security threat and treated accordingly.
When I tried for years to get my Iraqi interpreter over here and constantly was given bs denials and hoops to jump just to be told no I'm a little ****ing pissed when people with no skin in the game want to give illegals rights. **** them