another handloading question

[42769vette]

i know you folks are probably getting tired of my dumb handloading questions but i have another
this is probably tough to answer but what is your favorite brand and type of bullets out of the major supliers (sierra hornady barnes ?) and what bullet of theres do you use my main concern will be to kill paper a long ways off im leaning towards trying a sierra matchking or a hornady v-max but thats strictly a guess on my part from reading everything i can find

 

[DavidandLori1]

It depends on if your making personal defense rounds, or target rounds, or rounds for cowboy action shooting, or etc, etc, etc. Hornady makes a good product, but they tend to be fully jacketed, and pricy, I would only use them as personal defence rounds, I would blow all that money at the range.

 

[42769vette]

this will be on a 300 wby and i will only kill paper or the occational coyote but i dont really care about expansion because a 300 wby with no expantion will kill a coyote

 

[AllenM]

I like Sierra Matchkings they will do about anything you want but in my opinon I think Berger is a step up from Sierra IMHO

 

[Farmritch]

Making personal defense rounds?????
NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER MAKE A ROUND THAT YOU WILL CARRY OR USE FOR PERSONAL DEFENSE
This willseal your coffin if ever you go to court and you will if someone is shot with a reloaded round made by you

Farmritch

It depends on if your making personal defense rounds, or target rounds, or rounds for cowboy action shooting, or etc, etc, etc. Hornady makes a good product, but they tend to be fully jacketed, and pricy, I would only use them as personal defence rounds, I would blow all that money at the range.

 

[Old Syko]

A middle of the road charge of 4350 under either the 180 or 200 grain Matchking will be very hard to improve on. Bullet seating depth will be very critical in the Weatherby and require more experimentation than the powder charge itself. Barnes and some of the other socalled premium manufacturers will equal but never surpass the Sierra's and at a greater cost.

 

[Old Syko]

Making personal defense rounds?????
NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER MAKE A ROUND THAT YOU WILL CARRY OR USE FOR PERSONAL DEFENSE
This willseal your coffin if ever you go to court and you will if someone is shot with a reloaded round made by you

Farmritch

BS I challenge you show proof of even 1 case of this being true. The NRA has never been made aware of such a case either. Feel free to contact them to find out for yourself. Many others have. If you shoot someone, handloaded ammo is the least of your worries. Just another old wives tale.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

I've had nothing but great experiences with Sierra Matchkings and Hornady A-Max bullets. I shoot for accuracy and the occasional coyote or stubborn raccoon.

I like Sierra Matchkings they will do about anything you want but in my opinon I think Berger is a step up from Sierra IMHO

I may have to order some Berger .30 cal to try on from your comment.

 

[42769vette]

thanks for the good info fellas keep it comming i need all the advise i can get

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

I've also gotten hooked on these 168gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. You may want to give them a try for the varmints if they make a higher grain.

 

[Sailor]

Making personal defense rounds?????
NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER MAKE A ROUND THAT YOU WILL CARRY OR USE FOR PERSONAL DEFENSE
This willseal your coffin if ever you go to court and you will if someone is shot with a reloaded round made by you

Farmritch

Urban legend or proof?

Are there any cases where this actually happened?

Black Talon, vs my loads? Which would look worse to a jury?

 

[42769vette]

my gun has 1-10 twist if that helps

 

[Farmritch]

Please don't use handloads for self defense applications! THERE HAS BEEN lots of artlicles written on this by several authors over the years. Notably, Massad Ayoob has written alot about this and has several court cases that he has been involved with on this subject. A liberal DA may/will paint you as somesort of "mad scientist" that is making "super killer" bullets in his/her basement. If you are actually unfortunate enough to be involved in a shooting, you will have enough to worry about (no matter how right or justified you are in your actions ) legally. Do not give the other side any ammo to hurt you with in your case. The problems with using handloads has been well documented and actual in the courts over the years. Also, this has been an issue in courts around the country...not just liberal east coast towns. Contact the defensive institute and you will be able to read some more specifics.
Yes, I actually do have proof that his has been an issue in the courts and that it has caused undo legal problems. Call the Defensive Institute (ie Defense Associates ) at 203-261-8719 and they will send you the specific court cases pertaining to this matter. This organization is ran by Chuck Taylor and Massad Ayoob. Now, Ayoob & Chuck Taylor is considered one of the autorities on pistol training in the world, and he recently put a seminar on at a local range. This subject is touched on---it's not a good idea at all to carry handloads in your carry gun. Doing so opens yourself up to undo legal bs. For those who have made a stance on this issue and will not change your ways, my prayers are with you. Hopefully you will never need to know. But, there is no real measurable (for me ) advantage to doing so and only negatives. Understand, I am speaking of cc for defense against people. If your in the backwoods of nowhere and are carring a 44/45 revolver or rifle for defense against 4-leg type predators, I see no problem with handloads and I actually do load my own for that purpose. But, me ccw for the street always has factory ammo.

 

[sloughfoot]

Part, or maybe all, of the fun of reloading is trying out different loads. Sierra, Hornady, Berger, Barnes all make good bullets. With a 10 twist good barrel just about anything shoots well.

You will learn a lot more on the range experimenting with your rifle than you can ever learn on the computer. What shoots good in mine might be crap in yours.

As far as the handloads for self defense. If you are justified in shooting the bad guy, it doesn't matter is you used a bazooka. This is a quote from our prosecutor. Don't get all tied up in it. JMHO

 

[Old Syko]

I've also gotten hooked on these 168gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. You may want to give them a try for the varmints if they make a higher grain.

Are you honestly getting good accuracy from the Nosler Ballistic tips or merely hunting grade accuracy? I have heard of noone doing much better than MOA with them and the lack of penetration has been appaling. I have pictures of their failure to perform reliably on game, and accuracy was just never up to snuff for me at least.

Yes, I actually do have proof that his has been an issue in the courts and that it has caused undo legal problems.

I still don't see any proof nor will I do the legwork to try to prove your point. Many over the years have tried to support this myth yet noone has been able to site the first bit of documentation to substantiate it. Yes, Ayoob has written many things on the subject but all I have ever seen appear to be nothing more than opinion and conjecture rather than a reporting of actual occurances.

As far as the handloads for self defense. If you are justified in shooting the bad guy, it doesn't matter is you used a bazooka.

Absolutely Correct!

 

[mrw]

I've read about one case where handloads were an issue. But not the way you'd think. This guys wife shot herself with a revolver that had his .38 spl reloads in it. They were actually reduced recoil loads but he used .38 +P marked brass. The crime lab assumed it was factory +p ammo and deduced that if she had shot herself with +p ammo the projectile would have exited her skull and not lodged in her skull like the bullet had. For some reason his lawyer was not allowed to introduce the fact that he had handloaded those rounds. So, it wasn't the super mega power loads that most "don't use your reloads for ccw" threads talk about.

 

[sloughfoot]

OP, what is your idea of "paper punching from a long way off"? How far is that? IMO, ALLENM's response is the best post to answer your very specific question.

But, how good is your hold? How good is your rifle? A hundred dollar bullet is pointless if your hold is two minutes an/or your rifle is a 3 minute rifle.

 

[kludge]

For some reason his lawyer was not allowed to introduce the fact that he had handloaded those rounds.

He "manufactured" the evidence, he could have also "manufatured" the entry in the log book... And without the evidence being admissible the jury could only hear the one side.

With factory ammunition the ballistician can more accurately deduce and recreate the most probable scenarios... which, assuming it was a good shoot, will put the states evidence on your side, corroborating your story.

The $10 a person saves by reloading self defense ammo will be spent before he dials the first digit of his lawyer's phone number.

"Well I can make better SD ammo than Winchester/Speer/Hornady."

How? We might be able to get the bullets and duplicate factory velocity, but we won't be able to get the low flash powder formulations.

"They make hundreds of thousands of rounds, and I only make 100. Mine have better quality control."

This statement shows that the person doesn't know how quality control works.

Because of the small batch sizes involed with reloading your own SD ammo, you can never show adequate AQL numbers to prove that this is true. Basically you'd have to fire every round to know if it is good, and you still won't know with any level of statisctical confidence whether the next one is good.

For example... let's say that an acceptable failure rate for SD ammo is 1/10,000. Since they make 500,000 per year they can easily test for this by pulling random samples from each batch and testing them. They just calculate the number of rounds they need to test and head to the range. You just can't do this at home.



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Back to the OP... for long range paper punching, you won't be disappointed with either SMK or A-MAX. Yes they are pricey (especially the A-MAX), but if you are developing a load with less accurate bullets, then you'll never know if it's you/the gun or the bullet. And always develop a load using a benchrest, that factors the shooter out of the equation as much as possible.

For .223 plinking the Hornady Bulk 55gr FMJBT and are very good and cheap.

For handgun plinking/practice it's usually Winchester bulk bullets. Hornady (mostly) and Speer get my business for most of the rest and FWIW Hornady XTPs are very accurate, and aren't outragously priced.

And for lead there are lot's of good cast bullets and I usually buy what I can find locally.

 

[Disposable Heart]

To the OP, REALISTICALLY!

You would get a variety, go to the range and get shooting. Find what "matches" your rifle. Inherently, that is what "match" ammunition means, it is a match to the gun shooting it.

Handloading is fun, but trying to find an end all solution that will fit your problem without manual research and trigger time doesnt happen. Unless someone has the same exact rifle, set up and firing type as you, you WILL get different results. These questions pop up alot. Unless they have the same exact equipment, same round count, etc...

To the self defense handloaders: I hand load some of my stuff. If you look at the cases where the shooting occurred, it was usually not a legal shoot. If you have a legal shoot and shut your trap regarding what you fired, you will be okay. The key here is LEGAL shoot. Shooting your wife isnt a legal shoot. Aggravated shooting of a person and his attacking dog (instead of just the dog) with a 10mm is not a legal shoot. Look at the cases people bring up, Mas Ayoob is a smart feller, but the cases he brings up have elements that will have the shooter in the slammer anyways. Most of the shoots were not legal or were very shady. If only people thought and stayed out of trouble instead of using their handgun as a magic talisman that will make everything go away, the world would be a little different.

 

[slow1911s]

Sierra, Hornady or Nosler - any will do you just fine. Accurate rifle reloading is about round-to-round uniformity and component quality.