Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[lonehoosier]

Sounds like they're going to overreach, as usual, and get nothing.

I truly hope you are right.

 

[gmcttr]

...Tactically speaking, this is attack is a new chapter in the 2018 edition of the Anarchists' Cookbook. (Well, I don't know for sure, but its an educated guess.) Is there any worry that terrorists, having seen the effectiveness of this attack, could steal the idea and expand on it?...

Brought up and overlooked 20 pages back.

...While LV may have been the first time an "accelerator" was used in crime, now that it has been and will continue to be highly publicized, it's only a matter of time until the next copycats, terrorists and gangbangers regularly put them to use if they are readily available.

 

[FishnHunt]

And the heat goes from Indiucky and Houghmade to TLex in 3.....2......1........


"WE'RE NOT FUDDS!!!!!! It's TLEX!!!!!!! LOOK!!!!! I bet he even has an Orange Jones style cap hanging up in his garage!!!!!!"

And TLex says, "Hell I don't even have a garage...You can call home and ask my wife....."

You are the Uneasy Barrister.....

I see what you did there.

 

[Bigtanker]

Here's a wrinkle that occurred to me over the lunch hour.

Tactically speaking, this is attack is a new chapter in the 2018 edition of the Anarchists' Cookbook. (Well, I don't know for sure, but its an educated guess.) Is there any worry that terrorists, having seen the effectiveness of this attack, could steal the idea and expand on it?

A semi-trained rear guard and this could've been much worse.

Granted, the mind reels from all the soft targets within the US. But these legal bumpstocks, in the hands of terrorists.... We need to consider that angle of rhetorical attack.

Honestly the terrorists would probably show up with real FA guns. No bump stocks needed.

 

[T.Lex]

Honestly the terrorists would probably show up with real FA guns. No bump stocks needed.

Even so, I can't escape the feeling that this has opened up a new box of Pandora's trinkets.

 

[JAL]

Tony Katz, was talking about this, on the radio, this morning .....

I don't know if he wanted to see, where his rounds were going, or he was going to lite the fuel .....

The first most definitely as it was planned to be a night operation. In addition to the bump stocks, the low light levels make it difficult to see where rounds are impacting at that distance. It's difficult enough in broad daylight. Regarding the fuel tanks, it may have been his desire to attempt it based on what he had seen on film and TV. The likelihood, even with tracers is still nil. You'd have to puncture a tank, form a puddle and then ignite it. The tanks themselves are hardened to prevent drive-by pot shots from puncturing them and are self-sealing. Fuel tanks being inherently explosive is a myth. Not that he realized this. The claims he shot at them based on a couple of bullet dings doesn't mean he did. They could have been there from prior idiot drive-by pot shots. How fresh they appear would provide an indicator, but would not be conclusive evidence. I'm taking the idea he was deliberately attempting to ignite or explode the tanks with a grain of salt. Two bullet dings are far from compelling evidence.

John

 

[ghuns]

And the heat goes from Indiucky and Houghmade to TLex in 3.....2......1........


"WE'RE NOT FUDDS!!!!!! It's TLEX!!!!!!! LOOK!!!!! I bet he even has an Orange Jones style cap hanging up in his garage!!!!!!"

And TLex says, "Hell I don't even have a garage...You can call home and ask my wife....."

You are the Uneasy Barrister.....

At least you did say, "and he voted for Hillary Clinton for president!".

That woulda crossed the line.

 

[KLB]

The very specific issue that the VAST majority have with this device is that it makes a plain civilian SA AR-15 indistinguishable from a FA M-16 in delivering rounds downrange. They could hear what this device does, and if they look at YouTube, see comparisons between the device and FA... minimal difference in utility.

The problem we have is that this time, the perception of the device is true, or so nearly close to true as to be indistinguishable from the truth... it ain't just perception or lies. And, it made a difference in the number killed and injured. And, it mimics a heavily regulated category of weapons which are illegal to make now for civilians. It has been, to this point, a "poor man's" fully automatic and a way to circumvent existing law.

We do not know if it made a difference in casualties. Perception is that it did, but reality could be that things could have been worse if he had actually aimed and shot semi-auto at targets. We will never know which would have been worse.

 

[indiucky]

You think anybody'll think I'm crazy if I go to Jeffersonville, via Terre Haute?

Your Hillbilly Street Cred just went up a notch....

 

[churchmouse]

We do not know if it made a difference in casualties. Perception is that it did, but reality could be that things could have been worse if he had actually aimed and shot semi-auto at targets. We will never know which would have been worse.

Well....if he took the "Time" to select and fire at given targets his round count in the period of time he was shooting would have been greatly reduced. The spray technique most likely caused the most damage just from the ricochets. At the angle of fire rounds had more than 1 chance to impact targets.

 

[indiucky]

At least you did say, "and he voted for Hillary Clinton for president!".

That woulda crossed the line.

Even I knew not to go there...

 

[T.Lex]

Your Hillbilly Street Cred just went up a notch....

A college roommate (late 1980s) listened to Charlie Daniels, Randy Travis, Hank Williams, Jr. (and little bit of Senior), and those guys. Still in that New Country/not-yet-Pop Country timeframe. Having spent my high school years soaking in Rap/Hip Hop/R&B, it took some time to appreciate the musicality of it, but I eventually did.

 

[spencer rifle]

Article by Mark Steyn, where he quotes extensively from a London think tank.

Short version: It's all about the guns. On purpose.

https://www.steynonline.com/8162/theory-of-the-case

 

[JAL]

Again though, it seems the guy shot himself at least 45 mins before the room was breeched. He limited the casualties himself.

i wonder if all guns were jammed at that point or he thought they were about to bust in.

LEO were at the room very quickly. He stopped shooting after strafing the security guard who first came to the door. Once there was no longer any shooting and as long as it didn't resume, LE evacuated the floor and waited for SWAT to arrive to conduct the breach. At that point it moved from active shooter to barricade and they could take some time. Most telling was the sheriff's briefing when he walked through the time line. The active shooting only lasted about 10-11 minutes. The presumption at this point is he thought a breach was imminent, found escape was impossible and ate the muzzle of a handgun.

John

 

[actaeon277]

 

[Ruffnek]

We do not know if it made a difference in casualties. Perception is that it did, but reality could be that things could have been worse if he had actually aimed and shot semi-auto at targets. We will never know which would have been worse.

I'm thinking aimed fire would've been worse, especially if he had picked one here, one there, spaced out. Single shots wouldn't have been nearly as noticeable and it would've taken more time for people to connect the dots and spread panic.

 

[HubertGummer]

YET.

I'm on the fence. Pelosi has already said she wants this to create a slippery slope. Shes no longer trying to hide it. She now openly admits she wants a decision that will make future rulings easier for her and her ilk.

Im on the fence. I think they are silly and prone to jamming and have no real tactical value outside of a range toy. Having seen them run, If I HAD to be downrange, I'd choose to make the run for it to safety against the bumpstock vs controlled semi fire. The average person cant hit the broad side of a barn when using a bumpfire and are prone to outrun the bolt. But I know that as useless as this toy is, it could signal an opening for other bans that DO matter.

I don't disagree with any of this, Its just that If agreeing to ban bumpstocks gives us leverage to keep other more important things then I would make that trade.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Now its being reported that one of the "shooters " grounded planes is active and owned by a defense contracor in Virginia .

 

[JAL]

Tony Katz, was talking about this, on the radio, this morning .....

I don't know if he wanted to see, where his rounds were going, or he was going to lite the fuel .....

Additional thought regarding tracers, which are typically loaded in MGs in a 1:4 ratio. Not as easy to see from other POVs than from behind the sights of the MG when using them during broad daylight. However, in low light you can see the stream of them from nearly any direction. Had he used them for that purpose, it would have identified the source of the bullets as soon as he started using them. Giving a visible trail to the source is a tactical consideration when using them in low light. Totally unknown in what ratio he would have loaded them. Often soldiers will load them as the last several rounds in their rifle magazines so they know when mag change is imminent. Some small unit leaders will use them in their rifles to ID targets to others in the team. As he wasn't using belted ammunition, who knows how he would have employed them.

John

 

[jayhawk]

Now its being reported that one of the "shooters " grounded planes is active and owned by a defense contracor in Virginia .

Link?