A peek at your pink....

[marvin02]

Every person does the best they can to determine a proper person when selling.

The LTCH is not a guarantee. 1,000s of posts here is not a guarantee, no one has ever joined a forum and posted what they need to to fit in, right?

I have seen ads on other forums asking to see a recent receipt for a firearm purchase, I guess to get around the "has LTCH, but committed bad acts since" folks.

The person asking a buyer to meet at a gun store to do the 4473 there may be surprised, I hope he verified their policies first. I checked on this before making my first private sale and could not find a store in my area willing to do that. I did not check with any small FFLs. I was told FFLs are not obligated to do a check on a private sale and would not waste their time. The manager I talked to at one store actually thought it funny that I would ask them to lose a potential sale so I could sell my gun. I did some more reading on the subject and found I was being overly cautious.

Each buyer satisfies their own standards to feel comfortable selling a gun. No big deal, because each buyer sets their own standards for the conditions they'll meet when buying. It's nice we have that freedom left.

 

[yote hunter]

Pass..

To each their own .

 

[Aszerigan]

If you can not figure out who I am from this forum on a deal from the classies then I give up. That is one of the reasons we want active members participation. I would never consider a need to ask this if you. I have a solid idea who you are as with a couple hundred other members.
Absolutely no knock on how one conducts their business. None what so ever.

I hear you, and I agree, there are certain members I don't card. But for the average transaction, and ALWAYS on Armslist.

 

[BugI02]

So, they are going to miss out on sales over something that will not be a requirement, then. Hmm.

Although some may not approve, I'll take a quick low-intrusive request to unambiguously denote a proper person over being expected to just assume that is always true. Granted INGO allows for reviewing other information about a potential buyer, but not sure that would necessarily help a 5 month member with ~100 posts all that much

Speaking for myself, I don't ever really NEED to sell anything, so 'missing out' on sales would not be much of a concern. If I really want something gone, I can just sell it on Gunbroker, usually for top dollar

Full disclosure, I have not sold a firearm on INGO, though; because I live in another state I would expect the paper trail and need for an FFL intermediary to be more of an issue than wanting to see if a buyer is licensed

Would you also object to a desire to see your DL to verify your age?

 

[BugI02]

I think their will be a lot of Hoosiers leaving their permits go because they don't leave the state into a state that requires a permit. Kentucky, Ohio both are constitutional carry now.

The concept is new to me, so bear with me - is that supposition really true? It is my understanding that constitutional carry only affects that states residents and a permit/license (whatever it is called) is still required in other states and still limited by reciprocity

I haven't really dug into it because it has little direct effect on me

 

[BugI02]

Looking at the card means nothing now anyway. I have known of several convicted felons that still had the "pink". It's not like the state hunts you down and takes it out of your wallet when you are convicted.

Then it is on the state for not doing so. I will have done due diligence by asking to see it, I cannot be expected to run a background check on any potential purchaser (yet)

 

[DadSmith]

The concept is new to me, so bear with me - is that supposition really true? It is my understanding that constitutional carry only affects that states residents and a permit/license (whatever it is called) is still required in other states and still limited by reciprocity

I haven't really dug into it because it has little direct effect on me

What I've read online from local news sources it's legal if you are a proper person, but restricted in same places as before. In Ohio, and Kentucky.


Edit
Ohio Senate Bill 215 does not mean that anyone can carry a gun. You must still be 21 years of age to get a handgun and be a “qualifying adult”. Most of the qualifications are the same as getting a CCW, except you don’t have to take the 8-hour course or carry a CCW license. You also can't have a criminal record. Also, the responsibility of informing law enforcement that you are carrying a firearm has changed.

Now that Ohio will have a "Constitutional Carry" law for guns there are still requirements to be considered a qualifying adult

Senate Bill 215 does not mean that anyone can carry a gun. You must still be 21 years of age to get a handgun and be a “qualifying adult”. Most

www.hometownstations.com

I see nothing about it being for Ohio residents only.

Permitless Carry – kentuckystatepolice.org

kentuckystatepolice.org

Again nothing about residents only.

 

[BugI02]

And I assume that "pink card" is LTCH. I just looked in my wallet after this thread to check if it was pink. I wonder why that made it that color.

Pink is thought to be one of the more difficult background colors to accurately scan/copy

 

[WebSnyper]

What I've read online from local news sources it's legal if you are a proper person, but restricted in same places as before. In Ohio, and Kentucky.


Edit
Ohio Senate Bill 215 does not mean that anyone can carry a gun. You must still be 21 years of age to get a handgun and be a “qualifying adult”. Most of the qualifications are the same as getting a CCW, except you don’t have to take the 8-hour course or carry a CCW license. You also can't have a criminal record. Also, the responsibility of informing law enforcement that you are carrying a firearm has changed.

Looking at the Indiana bill (and I may well not be looking at the correct place or of this is what will actually have made it into the law that becomes effect 1-Jul-2022, so please correct if needed)

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2022/bills/house/1127

DIGEST​

Constitutional carry. Repeals the law that requires a person to obtain a license to carry a handgun in Indiana. Provides that a nonresident of Indiana may carry a handgun in Indiana without possessing a license or permit to carry a handgun from the person's state of residence. Allows a member of the: (1) general assembly; (2) general assembly's professional staff; or (3) lobby registration commission; to possess a handgun on the Indiana government center campus if the person is otherwise permitted to possess a handgun. Allows a person who wishes to carry a handgun in another state under a reciprocity Constitutional carry. Repeals the law that requires a person to obtain a license to carry a handgun in Indiana. Provides that a nonresident of Indiana may carry a handgun in Indiana without possessing a license or permit to carry a handgun from the person's state of residence. Allows a member of the: (1) general assembly; (2) general assembly's professional staff; or (3) lobby registration commission; to possess a handgun on the Indiana government center campus if the person is otherwise permitted to possess a handgun. Allows a person who wishes to carry a handgun in another state under a reciprocity agreement entered into by Indiana and the other state to obtain a license to carry a handgun. Beginning July 1, 2022, permits a person not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law to possess a firearm on any property that is: (1) affiliated with; (2) operated or managed by; (3) owned by; or (4) leased by; the department of natural resources. Defines certain terms. Makes conforming amendments. ... View more
1

 

[BugI02]

Ask a person "are you allowed to buy, and own a firearm under federal, and Indiana state laws?"
Then ask "are you an Indiana resident?"
If they answer yes to both questions is it not on them if they buy a firearm illegally?
Do we have the authority to ask for ID legally?

There is no legality involved without the ability to force compliance

If I ask to see your LTCH and DL, you have every right to refuse, as do I to decline the transaction. Your bank can't force you to show ID, either, but they don't have to cash your check

 

[DadSmith]

Looking at the Indiana bill (and I may well not be looking at the correct place or of this is what will actually have made it into the law that becomes effect 1-Jul-2022, so please correct if needed)

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2022/bills/house/1127

DIGEST​

Constitutional carry. Repeals the law that requires a person to obtain a license to carry a handgun in Indiana. Provides that a nonresident of Indiana may carry a handgun in Indiana without possessing a license or permit to carry a handgun from the person's state of residence. Allows a member of the: (1) general assembly; (2) general assembly's professional staff; or (3) lobby registration commission; to possess a handgun on the Indiana government center campus if the person is otherwise permitted to possess a handgun. Allows a person who wishes to carry a handgun in another state under a reciprocity Constitutional carry. Repeals the law that requires a person to obtain a license to carry a handgun in Indiana. Provides that a nonresident of Indiana may carry a handgun in Indiana without possessing a license or permit to carry a handgun from the person's state of residence. Allows a member of the: (1) general assembly; (2) general assembly's professional staff; or (3) lobby registration commission; to possess a handgun on the Indiana government center campus if the person is otherwise permitted to possess a handgun. Allows a person who wishes to carry a handgun in another state under a reciprocity agreement entered into by Indiana and the other state to obtain a license to carry a handgun. Beginning July 1, 2022, permits a person not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law to possess a firearm on any property that is: (1) affiliated with; (2) operated or managed by; (3) owned by; or (4) leased by; the department of natural resources. Defines certain terms. Makes conforming amendments. ... View more
1

I think @KellyinAvon can clear up some of these questions.

 

[WebSnyper]

I think @KellyinAvon can clear up some of these questions.

Agreed. I'll readily admit while I wrote some emails, etc to show support for Constitutional Carry, I am by far not the master of all that is in the bill, and what made it to the signed law, etc.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Agreed. I'll readily admit while I wrote some emails, etc to show support for Constitutional Carry, I am by far not the master of all that is in the bill, and what made it to the signed law, etc.

1 July is the beginning of the fiscal year in Indiana, and usually when new laws go into effect. They can be earlier if specified in the bill, or signed as an emergency by the governor then it is an earlier date.

 

[Levergun1]

Although some may not approve, I'll take a quick low-intrusive request to unambiguously denote a proper person over being expected to just assume that is always true. Granted INGO allows for reviewing other information about a potential buyer, but not sure that would necessarily help a 5 month member with ~100 posts all that much

Speaking for myself, I don't ever really NEED to sell anything, so 'missing out' on sales would not be much of a concern. If I really want something gone, I can just sell it on Gunbroker, usually for top dollar

Full disclosure, I have not sold a firearm on INGO, though; because I live in another state I would expect the paper trail and need for an FFL intermediary to be more of an issue than wanting to see if a buyer is licensed

Would you also object to a desire to see your DL to verify your age?

DL to verify age, is a pretty certain thing. Yes, IDs CAN be faked but it is tougher, nowadays.

I am not opposed to someone asking to see a pink card. That's their prerogative. Was just curious how their thought process will evolve (or not) after July 1st.

I have went to a couple of sales, where the person said that they required to see the card. One, we got to talking and they never asked. (I think appearance, attitude and how a person carries themselves goes a long way)
Second time, I just showed my badge on my belt. That was sufficient for that seller.

 

[WebSnyper]

1 July is the beginning of the fiscal year in Indiana, and usually when new laws go into effect. They can be earlier if specified in the bill, or signed as an emergency by the governor then it is an earlier date.

Understood, question was really about the content of the Constitutional Carry Law that becomes eff 1-Jul. Can you confirm if the reference I pulled from above is the proper place or if there is another proper source? Thanks @KellyinAvon

 

[BugI02]

I know a guy who has a lifetime permit he carries and has a domestic violence conviction. How is one to know that if they were to sell a firearm to him? I know better because I know him and that he has that conviction, but people here who ask for Indiana ID and his LTCH would get both and not know any better.

You have still satisfied due diligence by asking to see them. Whether or not you can detect dishonest use by the presenter, you can certainly testify truthfully, if required, that you believed the buyer was a proper person and why

Buyer could also have moved across state lines and still be using his old Indiana DL and you would have no way to detect that, either

I think the crux is that you made a good faith effort to follow the law

 

[DadSmith]

You have still satisfied due diligence by asking to see them. Whether or not you can detect dishonest use by the presenter, you can certainly testify truthfully, if required, that you believed the buyer was a proper person and why

Buyer could also have moved across state lines and still be using his old Indiana DL and you would have no way to detect that, either

I think the crux is that you made a good faith effort to follow the law

My earlier post about asking the person if they are allowed to buy/own a firearm under federal and Indiana state laws, and if they are Indiana residents should satisfy that without seeing their ID or LTCH. If they lie it's on them not the seller.

 

[Airtevron1]

Me, I still want to see one. At least some attempt to verify proper person.

 

[Levergun1]

Me, I still want to see one. At least some attempt to verify proper person.

Until July, anyway.

 

[ditcherman]

Let me throw some logic around that I hope BigRed might be proud of…

This conversation reminds me of the thread about the banks being forced to report small transactions or all transactions with accounts over $600 or whatever the case ended up being.
We were mad at the feds for proposing the rule, and mad at the banks for helping to enforce it, and mad at the feds for making the banks their agents.

Of course, no one really wants fraud and counterfeiting and tax cheating going on for the most part, and no one wants guns in the hands of criminals, but the feds dictating the banks follow some illogical rule won’t really solve their problem, and I think we should just use logic and common sense to decide who we sell to, not be beholden to act like some kind of deputized federal agent. The logic just doesn’t work. I’m not going to sell to my neighbor who’s cooking meth, I’m not going to sell to my neighbor who’s kids are struggling with drugs and in and out of jail, but I may sell to a complete stranger, they just have to seem reasonable to me and talk the talk, not be in fear that somethings going to come back to haunt me when I used reasonable logic.

I guess I am equating the hard line of “pink card and DL is the only way we can be sure” to being an extension of a government agent, and I don’t want to be that.

Don’t get me wrong, you can sell (or not) to whoever you want to, and feel free to ask for the id’s, but I just don’t think it’s solid logic.

I’m not trying to change anyones mind, just wanted to put this out there, as acting as agents for the state as opposed to our own interests bothers me.