A National Divorce

[bobzilla]

And when those zones happen to have the highest concentration of economic wealth (as they do today) and they decide they don't need you any longer, then what?

But how long does that economic wealth survive without the food and common things that are provided by the red zones? That money will change hands pdq if they're hungry.

 

[patience0830]

Utah governor says Taylor Greene's 'national divorce' proposal is 'evil' | Fox News

Utah Republican Governor Spencer Cox denounced Georgia GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene's "national divorce" proposal as "evil" as the congresswoman turns heads with her idea.

www.foxnews.com

View attachment 257227

MTG…Patriot or Traitor?

And if we get a divorce, who gets the house?

Side with the most guns and bullets willing to pledge their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to the cause.

 

[patience0830]

I think that's an oversimplification. In the first "Civil War", the dividing line was pretty clear between northern states and southern states. That is no longer the case. There are "pockets" of blue in a sea of red, (see @BigRed 's map). How do you divide that up?

Excise it like the cancer it is?

 

[patience0830]

All equally worth ignoring.

If they'd go away they'd be ignorable. But they are in positions of power and have no plans to quit pushing their agenda.

 

[patience0830]

Who is that strapping young man in your fantasy meme? Are you sure that he is your friend?

I'm kinda curious how 65+ year old men shaking their fists at the computer screen will fare once the "divorce" happens, their Medicare and Social Security is gone and the young, well armed man with "no rules of engagement" wants their last pound of bacon.

We'll be using the bacon as bait.

 

[breakingcontact]

This is some MAGA adjacent agitprop.

It gets her name in the news (and whoever joins in).

What strikes me as odd, is folks waiting for permission to secede as individual people. I'm talking about examining and questioning, just how much of what you don't like, you can pull yourself TODAY instead of whatever this "national divorce" stuff is.

There are certainly things in our country which we cannot avoid, including a great many disagreeable things, but there are so so many ways we can liberate ourselves in small (legal) ways TODAY.

 

[JettaKnight]

This is some MAGA adjacent agitprop.

It gets her name in the news (and whoever joins in).

What strikes me as odd, is folks waiting for permission to secede as individual people. I'm talking about examining and questioning, just how much of what you don't like, you can pull yourself TODAY instead of whatever this "national divorce" stuff is.

There are certainly things in our country which we cannot avoid, including a great many disagreeable things, but there are so so many ways we can liberate ourselves in small (legal) ways TODAY.

Sovereign Citizen?

 

[breakingcontact]

Sovereign Citizen?

Funny you mention that. My first draft I said this is NOT that but didn't think I'd need to say that here.

We can remove ourselves from a great many disagreeable aspects of what we frequently discuss without going in to that camp.

Really believe in small government? Start living it as much as possible.

Don't be so eager to engage with what you claim to disagree.

Can do all of that while having a license plate on the car (but man I like not having a front one!)

 

[Route 45]

We'll be using the bacon as bait.

Good luck with your master bait plan. Certainly no shortage of outrage porn on the internet to get ya going.

MTG - Ragemate of the Month.

 

[manifest destiny]

If man refused to discuss the impossible, there'd be no flight, computers, mri's, etc. Nothing is lost in discussing and debating an idea that seems somewhere between impractical and impossible. The U.S. is already splintered. Discussing options for resolution seems prescient.

 

[cg21]

View attachment 257479

If only that was ALL we had to worry about I think we would all HAPPILY live with drag queens on tv. The reach and lack of morals is much deeper and sinister than that.

 

[VulpesForge]

We'll be using the bacon as bait.

There's the old hunter answer.

 

[BugI02]

I'm kinda curious how 65+ year old men shaking their fists at the computer screen will fare once the "divorce" happens, their Medicare and Social Security is gone and the young, well armed man with "no rules of engagement" wants their last pound of bacon.

FAFO

 

[Denny347]

With that attitude it sure is.

Look, I realize that practical issues likely preclude any reasonable chance of the USA splitting into smaller countries.

Still, I wish the conversation would move past the point of "anyone who even remotely suggests splitting up the country is either an attention-seeking idiot or a poisonous, hateful, vile traitor." What harm can come of reasonably entertaining the idea? What would happen if reasonable people started seeking a separation of states, but when confronted with the practical impossibility of this idea, instead turned the conversation to creating a system where the states became, to the fullest extent possible, independent entities, but maintained an agreement that there would be some sort of central government in charge only of those things dictated by absolute, practical necessity?

Hey, this is starting to sound a lot like the country our founders envisioned, isn't it? And that really doesn't sound so bad to me.

I love brain picking, bouncing ideas off a group, playing devil's advocate. However, this "divorce" term/idea is clean way to say secession. Other than for writing a plot for a movie, I don't understand the draw. It's an automatic rabbit hole that leads nowhere and produces nothing productive. I guess if you just like saying words.... With so many dying and a country that STILL feels the effects of the last secession attempt, is it some mystery why talk about doing so again draws snickers, insults, etc? Believing this is a valid answer to any of today's issues is plain ignorant.

 

[Twangbanger]

If man refused to discuss the impossible, there'd be no flight, computers, mri's, etc. Nothing is lost in discussing and debating an idea that seems somewhere between impractical and impossible. The U.S. is already splintered. Discussing options for resolution seems prescient.

Forget "impractical" and "impossible." What's even beneficial about it? What do you get out of it? I'd just like someone to riddle me that.

Put a different way, how will your freedom as an Indiana citizen increase? Do you think your taxes will go down substantially? Bzzt. Not unless you're saying you will give up social security and medicare you paid into, and I don't see anyone here saying that. Are your red state comrades going to cut "national" defense enough to give you a significant financial windfall? I don't see the "oorah" supporters going much for that, either. Is Eric Holcomb going to let you have a suppressor without registering it or paying a tax? Bzzt, again. Legal pot? A lot of places do it now (but Indiana isn't one of them).

Again, how does your freedom increase? All I've heard when this is discussed is, "Well, my money won't be used to support _xxxxx_ (fill in the blank). That's a pretty limited definition of freedom.

I'm not against the idea. I just want someone to give me a specific list of things that will get significantly better and more free, as an Indiana citizen, compared to what they are now. Let's examine that list, and see how many of those points your actual fellow hoosiers, judges, and state agencies will really let you have, vs. what you just "think" they will let you have. You know, the same fellow hoosiers who shut down your counties during COVID, made you wear masks in healthcare facilities, etc., etc.?

As much as I detest Joe & Blow, as an Indiana resident, I don't see how much influence they have over my life, that my Hoosier government wouldn't also rain down on my head - once tasked with the full brunt and weight of defending us from foreign enemies, paying for our old age benefits and healthcare, quelling and catering to the hysterical fears of old fat unhealthy people (some of whom are right here on INGO - go re-read the threads) when the "next" pandemic comes (and it will), etc., etc.

 

[cg21]

I love brain picking, bouncing ideas off a group, playing devil's advocate. However, this "divorce" term/idea is clean way to say secession. Other than for writing a plot for a movie, I don't understand the draw. It's an automatic rabbit hole that leads nowhere and produces nothing productive. I guess if you just like saying words.... With so many dying and a country that STILL feels the effects of the last secession attempt, is it some mystery why talk about doing so again draws snickers, insults, etc? Believing this is a valid answer to any of today's issues is plain ignorant.

What are the effects we still feel?

 

[manifest destiny]

Forget "impractical" and "impossible." What's even beneficial about it? What do you get out of it? I'd just like someone to riddle me that.

Put a different way, how will your freedom as an Indiana citizen increase? Do you think your taxes will go down substantially? Bzzt. Not unless you're saying you will give up social security and medicare you paid into, and I don't see anyone here saying that. Are your red state comrades going to cut "national" defense enough to give you a significant financial windfall? I don't see the "oorah" supporters going much for that, either. Is Eric Holcomb going to let you have a suppressor without registering it or paying a tax? Bzzt, again. Legal pot? A lot of places do it now (but Indiana isn't one of them).

Again, how does your freedom increase? All I've heard when this is discussed is, "Well, my money won't be used to support _xxxxx_ (fill in the blank). That's a pretty limited definition of freedom.

I'm not against the idea. I just want someone to give me a specific list of things that will get significantly better and more free, as an Indiana citizen, compared to what they are now. Let's examine that list, and see how many of those points your actual fellow hoosiers, judges, and state agencies will really let you have, vs. what you just "think" they will let you have. You know, the same fellow hoosiers who shut down your counties during COVID, made you wear masks in healthcare facilities, etc., etc.?

As much as I detest Joe & Blow, as an Indiana resident, I don't see how much influence they have over my life, that my Hoosier government wouldn't also rain down on my head - once tasked with the full brunt and weight of defending us from foreign enemies, paying for our old age benefits and healthcare, quelling and catering to the hysterical fears of old fat unhealthy people (some of whom are right here on INGO - go re-read the threads) when the "next" pandemic comes (and it will), etc., etc.

You don't feel value in any discussion therefore nobody should discuss anything. Got it. I called the idea somewhere between impractical and impossible but those terms don't fit your viewpoint, thus no room for discussion. Got it. I don't think you even understand the point I was making. Nothing is lost in discussing ideas for resolution to the splintered world we live in. Blah, blah old fat people the state must take care of, blah, blah Pandemic! Got it.

 

[Route 45]

If only that was ALL we had to worry about I think we would all HAPPILY live with drag queens on tv. The reach and lack of morals is much deeper and sinister than that.

What morals are we talking about? I see an awful lot of "red" states that are not exactly beacons of virtue.

Not that there are any such things as completely red and blue states.

How's this for a messy divorce?

 

[ditcherman]

I'm not in favor of giving up ground. I want our country back. I want to restore the constituon and have a limited government that realizes THE PEOPLE are the masters. Restore power back to the states and hold states accountable that violate theor agreements. Im tired of the daily tyranny from 3 branches of government.
it's too fat and bankrupt.

5 pages in, and I just felt like this was worth quoting again.
To succeed, you need a vision, and this is one that can be rallied around, unlike the divorce.

 

[Route 45]

5 pages in, and I just felt like this was worth quoting again.
To succeed, you need a vision, and this is one that can be rallied around, unlike the divorce.

From The Sound up in Long Island
Out to San Francisco Bay
And everthing that's in between them is our own

And we may have done a little bit
Of fightin' amongst ourselves
But you outside people best leave us alone

'Cause we'll all stick together
And you can take that to the bank
That's the cowboys and the hippies
And the Rebels and and the Yanks

You just go and lay your hand
On a Pittsburgh Steelers' fan
And I think you're gonna finally understand

In America - Charlie Daniels Band, 1980