8.6 BLK Thread

[Aszerigan]

So, videos coming?

Pics for now. Videos when it stops raining or the mud freezes. Special thanks to A&A Optics - @42769vette for hooking me up with the glass.

This is the fully assembled build. Custom milled pic rail for the bipod because Q wants $350 and I know a good machinist.

Q Fix 8.6 SBR 12"
Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50
Q Plan B Omega XL Adapter
Rugged Alaskan 360 Suppressor

Check her out. If anyone wants to shoot it, PM for appointments at my place or yours. It's just an experience to pull this trigger.

 

[edwea]

It would probably make Kevin's teeth itch to see a Rugged can on a Fix. Love it!

 

[Aszerigan]

It would probably make Kevin's teeth itch to see a Rugged can on a Fix. Love it!

If they’d ship their 8.6 cans, it’d be a different story. Had some on order since June. Cancelling those orders before SHOT, the Alaskan is too good.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

The 300 blk concept made sense to me and I’m glad to see it taking off in the military / hunting worlds.

8.6 as I understand it sure sounds fun. And I imagine it will be a hit with some niche crowds of recreational shooters and maybe hunters. Given its size and how unwieldy autoloaders are that can handle it, I imagine it will be most prevalent in bolt guns. Doubting it will gain much police / military traction.

I’m quite interested as a spectator and am looking forward to what the industry does with this big dart launcher

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So the 8.6 Blackout is actually a trimmed 8.6 Creedmoor?

 

[Squid556]

So the 8.6 Blackout is actually a trimmed 8.6 Creedmoor?

Per gorilla ammo

 

[Hawkeye7br]

Thanks for clarifying. Last summer, I shot several rounds of a 338/300 Blackout in a single shot. Two totally different rounds.

 

[Aszerigan]

I'm impressed at the lack of recoil from the rifle. 17gns of powder under a 300gn bullet (8.6blk) vs 12gns of powder under a 220gn bullet (300blk) would seem to generate a heavier punch, but it really doesn't.

They were out of 300gn SMKs when I re-upped my bullet supply so I ordered some 250s. Hoping I can slow them down enough to use them. No way am I using "seconds" in a rifle that cost this much.

 

[turnerdye1]

Has anybody looked into the 338 Razorback? I found this cartridge while researching the 8.6BLK.

Apparently its the 8.6BLK's little brother that will run in an AR15. Based off of a 10mm handgun brass, 7-10gr of powder, and 250-300gr 338 bullets.

Seemed a little interesting.

 

[edwea]

Never heard of it, but it looks pretty funny. I wonder how critical bullet selection is. It looks like a bullet with a long boat tail may be too long to fully engage the neck.

 

[Aszerigan]

Looks like a 40 Super with a much longer neck. Cute project.

The important thing to remember about the 8.6 is that it's rotational velocity from a 1:3 twist significantly increases energy on target. A 1:6.5 barrel in the Razerback wont get that.

 

[profjeremy]

Has anybody looked into the 338 Razorback? I found this cartridge while researching the 8.6BLK.

Apparently its the 8.6BLK's little brother that will run in an AR15. Based off of a 10mm handgun brass, 7-10gr of powder, and 250-300gr 338 bullets.

Seemed a little interesting.

Oh no, just when I had downsized my calibers! 10mm case and 338 bullet, that looks interesting… dang it.

But with these boutique calibers, I’ve learned my lesson. If @Aszerigan doesn’t make it, I’m not getting into it!

 

[amafrank]

I think the 8.6 blackout is a joke and a kevin brittenham marketing ploy. The case is a lot longer than it needs to be for ideal subsonic use and in reality its longer than it needs to be for supersonics too. The suggested twist rate is beyond stupid and the only thing it gets you is damage. There are other cartridges that make a lot more sense if you want something in the caliber and none of them have the problems the blackout does.

The 338 Benchrest or BR as its known has been around since sometime in the 60s. It is basically a 308 case shortened to about an inch and half, don't have the spec in front of me. JD Jones of whisper fame co-opted the round at some point and called it the 338 whisper. It allows the use of 300gr jacketed bullets with enough space for loading a supersonic load if wanted. The max with that bullet weight is probably in the 1400fps range. Loaded for subsonic there is little space left for powder to move around and this keeps ignition and burn consistent for better accuracy. The blackout has a lot more space when loaded subsonic and the powder has a lot of room to move so consistency is poor. Because of that accuracy is too. When loading lighter bullets there is plenty of space to run 180gr bullets at 2300-2400 fps so supersonic loadings for deer or other game are there too. Since the twist rate recommended for the 300gr bullets is 1-8 or 1-7 you can run a much wider range of bullet weights and still be accurate. The blackout round may get you a little more velocity but not as much as you would hope from the amount of powder you're running. You will also end up as one of the previous posters noted, blowing up bullets due to the extremely excessive twist rate. This is a pretty good way to trash an expensive suppressor and miss a target as well.

Brittenham claims you get much more energy on target by using that twist rate but he's smokin crack. It can be proven mathmatically that while there is an energy gain, it is so small as to be non existent. In addition to that you will have an energy loss due to the extra energy required to spin the bullet up. In practice there is no gain and ballistic tests have shown that the bullets are frequently damaged as they slip in the rifling while trying to spin up so accuracy is decreased. This leads to inconsistency which of course means less overall accuracy.

Are there any advantages to the 8.6 blackout? The only one I can think of is that is has been commercially manufactured. I can't think of anything else.

For those of us who handload the 338BR and a bunch of the other choices have been fantastic. The 338BR is the most hollywood quiet suppressed subsonic I've ever seen. I've run it in bolt actions and AR's as well as a couple super custom specials. It cycles the AR action well and gives great accuracy and consistency both sub and supersonic. From what I've seen in real life of the blackout, some guns can run the subs ok but accuracy on the supers is bad. Accuracy with the subs has not been steller either but most guys aren't shooting paper with their AR so 3 moa is good enough.

I would suggest that if you're going to build one of the blackouts that you use a more reasonable twist rate on the barrel. 1-7 is more than fast enough to stabilize a 338 pointed bullet up to about 350gr. Going any faster won't help you unless you're running something much longer. With that one thing done the actual cartridge should work much better and more consistently.

Just my opinion based on experience over the last many years.

Frank

 

[Aszerigan]

Opinions are like... well, you know.

I have real world experience with this round, and you don't. That's all I can say.

When a bullet fragments, tangential velocity makes a VERY large impact on how far the fragments travel within the body of the animal. It's basic physics. It can be proven mathematically last time I checked. A bullet spinning faster will have more fractional energy upon expansion/fragmentation/etc.

I'm guessing this is more an opinion of K.B. than an actual statement against the 8.6BLK round. That's just the way the internet is.

I’m not a fan of the guy but I do like his company’s stuff. There are other engineers that work there, fyi. If it was half the price, it would be a lot more popular, there’s no doubt. But don’t stomp on a company’s innovation and ideas because you don’t like the owner. That’s simply not ok.

 

[BigMoose]

It’s the latest fad non standard caliber.

At this point there is a long list of them.

 

[sapper83]

It’s the latest fad non standard caliber.

At this point there is a long list of them.

If they have proof in the pudding they can become a standard. 6.5 creedmoor is being adopted by socom. Anything can happen

 

[two70]

If they have proof in the pudding they can become a standard. 6.5 creedmoor is being adopted by socom. Anything can happen

The 6.5 CM is a somewhat apt comparison considering that the hype outstrips the reality for both. At least the 6.5 has some actual utility to go along with the hype. Time will tell on the 8.6 but I have my doubts.

 

[sapper83]

The 6.5 CM is a somewhat apt comparison considering that the hype outstrips the reality for both. At least the 6.5 has some actual utility to go along with the hype. Time will tell on the 8.6 but I have my doubts.

I got into to 6.5 to see the hype, it impresses me personally. Like you though I have my doubts. I have an old army buddy into 300 and 8.6 so I have my popcorn and watching.

 

[BigMoose]

If they have proof in the pudding they can become a standard. 6.5 creedmoor is being adopted by socom. Anything can happen

A lot of weird cartridges get used by special forces.. or were developed..

Lets look over some of the more recent... tacticool cartridges, they come up with every other year.

458 SOCOM
6.8mm Remington SPC
6.5 grendel
224 Valkyrie
6mm ARC
6.8 Fury
25-45 Sharps
350 Legend

Now some have gotten a little traction..
300 Blackout
6.5 Creedmoor

None of these are truly mainstream calibers, where you can go into any shop and find ammo for.

Such are the pitfalls of the tacticool cartridge of the week.

JUST SAY NO, TO THE TACTICOOL CARTRIDGE OF THE WEEK.

 

[sapper83]

A lot of weird cartridges get used by special forces.. or were developed..

Lets look over some of the more recent... tacticool cartridges, they come up with every other year.

458 SOCOM
6.8mm Remington SPC
6.5 grendel
224 Valkyrie
6mm ARC
6.8 Fury
25-45 Sharps
350 Legend

Now some have gotten a little traction..
300 Blackout
6.5 Creedmoor

None of these are truly mainstream calibers, where you can go into any shop and find ammo for.

Such are the pitfalls of the tacticool cartridge of the week.

JUST SAY NO, TO THE TACTICOOL CARTRIDGE OF THE WEEK.

I was looking at it in a different perspective, valid point to a readily available off the shelf caliber. I don't go into stores often because the prices are higher. I buy off line (until dems ban it) or I reload.

I do see 300blk and 6.5cm, even 6.5 grendel sometimes, when i grace my local shops with my presence most the shops here are run by hipsters so that may influence the fad rounds.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

A lot of weird cartridges get used by special forces.. or were developed..

Lets look over some of the more recent... tacticool cartridges, they come up with every other year.

458 SOCOM
6.8mm Remington SPC
6.5 grendel
224 Valkyrie
6mm ARC
6.8 Fury
25-45 Sharps
350 Legend

Now some have gotten a little traction..
300 Blackout
6.5 Creedmoor

None of these are truly mainstream calibers, where you can go into any shop and find ammo for.

Such are the pitfalls of the tacticool cartridge of the week.

JUST SAY NO, TO THE TACTICOOL CARTRIDGE OF THE WEEK.

Just kidding, just kidding! I love the time-tested cartridges, too. Nothing wrong with a little fun playing around with new stuff, though.