it worked as long as those products being sold were produced in america by american workers. then the wages were ample enough to support the taxes and the first tax levies were meant to support those corporations who were producing here with people from here. now everything is produced elsewhere and imported here. those corporations are no supposed to recieve tax levies and should be paying higher taxes which was meant to stop the import goods and have them produced here. unfortunately, free trade has taken root and its all about the rich getting richer and the little guy paying for it. the founding fathers had it right, greed and corruption have tainted it to the point it is working against us now. someone has to pay and neither the greedy corporation or the slimey mooch will pony up because they are protected by a corrupt government who is the middle man. the only way to correct it is to start over!
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it worked as long as those products being sold were produced in america by american workers. then the wages were ample enough to support the taxes and the first tax levies were meant to support those corporations who were producing here with people from here. now everything is produced elsewhere and imported here. those corporations are no supposed to recieve tax levies and should be paying higher taxes which was meant to stop the import goods and have them produced here. unfortunately, free trade has taken root and its all about the rich getting richer and the little guy paying for it. the founding fathers had it right, greed and corruption have tainted it to the point it is working against us now. someone has to pay and neither the greedy corporation or the slimey mooch will pony up because they are protected by a corrupt government who is the middle man. the only way to correct it is to start over!
hornadylnl
Shooter
- Nov 19, 2008
- 21,505
- 63
Did you ever stop to think that high taxes on corporations helped drive our jobs out of country?
F it, who is John Galt?
Truckerman79
Sharpshooter
My wife and I paid a net income tax of 2.5%.
And that's exactly how the VAT will work.
The goods will be taxed at the manufacturing/distribution source and then passed on to us as higher operating costs by the companies.
Then we will pay the tax again when we purchase the goods at retail.
We already have VAT taxes on Alcohol, Tobacco, FIREARMS & AMMO, Gasoline, and other goods.
They're called Federal Excise Taxes.
Same thing!! Different name!
It's tax, on tax, on tax, ad nauseum.
Mike
hornadylnl
Shooter
- Nov 19, 2008
- 21,505
- 63
Think of taxes this way. It's like being able to buy a product directly from the factory or having the factory selling to a wholesaler who in turn sells it to a dealer who in turn sells it to the individual consumer. The wholesaler and dealer have overhead costs plus they have to turn a profit. A factory producers a widget and sells it to the wholesaler for $1. In order to pay for overhead and make a profit, the wholesaler sells it to the dealer for $1.25. In order for the dealer to cover overhead and make a profit, they sell it to the customer for $1.50. You just paid a 50% markup to cover for 2 entities that produced nothing. The factory could sell it to you directly for $1.10 and they profit more and you save money.
By corporations having to pay taxes, they have to hire accountants, bookkeepers, etc that do nothing to produce the product. They are purely overhead that gets passed on to the customer. If a corporation has to pay $.10 in tax for every widget going out the door, $.10 gets added to sale price of the widget. But it doesn't end there. It costs the corporation $.02 per widget to pay the accountants, bookkeepers, etc so they charge you $.12 more when you buy the widget. In reality, that $.10 tax costs the consumer $.12 whereas if the consumer paid the tax up front himself, he'll save $.02 and the government still gets their $.10.
Where are you getting all this "supposed to" stuff? None of what you're saying is in the Constitution as you imply. Back up what you're asserting as an absolute.
Get this through your head:
It is impossible to tax a business. Let me say it again: It is impossible to tax a business.
A business of any size MUST recover 100% of its expenses. Taxes are an expense. Every single dollar a business spends, even on taxes, must be paid by the final consumer. So if you tax Wal Mart, you're really taxing the single mom who buys her diapers there. If you tax the oil companies, you're really taxing the little old lady who only drives her car to church on Sundays.
You can't tax business. You can't tax business. It's IMPOSSIBLE.
If that were true, business would not spend millions of dollars a year trying to avoid taxes and trying to convince you they could not be taxed. Let me say this again since it seems to be what you think makes something true, BUSINESS WOULDN'T SPEND MILLIONS EVERY YEAR TRYING TO BEND TAX RULES IF THEY COULD NOT BE TAXED.
Taxes and or costs are not what determines the price you pay for any thing. The cost the public is willing to pay is what set's the price a business charges.
hornadylnl
Shooter
- Nov 19, 2008
- 21,505
- 63
Ok, I'll bite. Prices are set by what customers are willing to pay. We can all determine we are only willing to pay $1 for a new escalade. Now go find me a corporation that can produce it for $1.
Corporations have a checkbook just like you and I. Goes INS have to be equal to or gereater than goes outs or they won't remain in business very long. To produce a widget, you have to tally up all costs associated with producing it. The electricity required to run the machinery. The water and sewage bills so your employees can get paid to take a dump. The mortgage on the factory property. Liability insurance for when a customer wants to play the legal lotto. Labor costs. Benefit costs for your employees. And GASP! Taxes! Yes, they are an expense just like the other expenses before this one. You add up the total costs it takes to produce a widget and determine if there is a market that is willing to pay all of those costs plus a few aheckles so you can earn a profit. A corporation is not in business to produce a product and sell it to you at their cost.
The reason that they spend all of that money is to keep from being priced out of the market by the taxes imposed.
Taxes and costs are the PRIMARY determining factor in the cost structure of manufactured goods and services.
Mike
If you believe this, then it should be OK with you to impose a 1000% tax on every firearm produced by any company, so long as it's paid by the company, because that means the price of guns won't go up.
Hey, it's win-win. Let's call Chuckie Schumer together and see if we can convince him it's a good idea.
I think the problem that a lot of "tax the corporations" types have is this:
Company A posts a $1 billion profit for a given year, having sold a billion widgets with a profit of $1 per widget. Without regard for any of the operating costs or overhead, tax guy says to himself, "clearly we can tax another 90 cents per widget, still leaving $100 million on the table for profits. That should be enough for anyone."
The problem is that it costs perhaps $3 billion in overhead to make that $1 billion in profit, a margin of 25%. Dropping that to $100 million lowers the margin to 2.5%, and at that point any good investor would close the business, lay off all the workers, and put the money into mutual funds or something. Or, if the option exists, the business managers would find some place else to produce their widgets, somewhere that reduces the $3 billion in overhead to a more manageable 2.5, for example. Sure, that means all the current workers are out of a job, but at least the company is paying taxes, right?
The point here is that what we call "profits" colloquially is not "profits" economically. Profit has come to mean income minus outflow, but economic profits are revenue minus outflow minus the prevailing rate of interest, because that is the most stable indicator of the opportunity cost of simply being in business.
Company A posts a $1 billion profit for a given year, having sold a billion widgets with a profit of $1 per widget. Without regard for any of the operating costs or overhead, tax guy says to himself, "clearly we can tax another 90 cents per widget, still leaving $100 million on the table for profits. That should be enough for anyone."
The problem is that it costs perhaps $3 billion in overhead to make that $1 billion in profit, a margin of 25%. Dropping that to $100 million lowers the margin to 2.5%, and at that point any good investor would close the business, lay off all the workers, and put the money into mutual funds or something. Or, if the option exists, the business managers would find some place else to produce their widgets, somewhere that reduces the $3 billion in overhead to a more manageable 2.5, for example. Sure, that means all the current workers are out of a job, but at least the company is paying taxes, right?
The point here is that what we call "profits" colloquially is not "profits" economically. Profit has come to mean income minus outflow, but economic profits are revenue minus outflow minus the prevailing rate of interest, because that is the most stable indicator of the opportunity cost of simply being in business.
dross, you sir are wrong. heres why:U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System
its a long read but you'll find it enlightening. read the section titled the 16th amendment. bear in mind that this was written by the treasury so it will leave out some important fact but a 2 second google search will do you some good.
They kept 8200 of our tax dollars this year. But I know where it went. My worthless son who works when he wants to, has 3 kids and a live in who does nothing, made 14k this year, but got back 8.5k. And he thinks they owe it to him. Where the h*** did we go wrong??????? His mom and I ALWAYS worked.
dross, you sir are wrong. heres why:U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System
its a long read but you'll find it enlightening. read the section titled the 16th amendment. bear in mind that this was written by the treasury so it will leave out some important fact but a 2 second google search will do you some good.
Nothing in that article contradicts anything dross said. It doesn't matter who hands the check to the tax man, the consumer is the one that ultimately pays it.
Brother, I am only going to say this once and you need to focus and turn off all the filters in your head before I do so I am going to put a pause here...........................
YOU need to file your taxes ASAP.
If you don't, at some time in the future you and your family will be introduced to a thing called "Estimated Taxes" from an entitiy called IDOR..........Indiana Department of Revenue. You will go from being a disabled Vet who can get a refund now to a disabled vet who has to prove he does not owe taxes and will never see any refund.
I am givng you real advice here, if you need to hear horror stories, PM and we can talk. I can't post any here.
I am the Son of a Disabled Vet. He never admitted he was, to look at him you would not have known it but the Govt said he was and he was.
File, file now, you can ammend it later but file even if you made zero, file. Your "comment call it even" in another post, simply put it is not your call to make. Please don't ignore this advice.
PM sent. Others here should make sure he sees this.
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