.358 Hoosier wildcat

[woody1071]

How would using these rifle types affect number of deer killed if we stay inside our current bag limits? If hunter success goes up (I view that as a positive thing) the bag limits could be lowered.

 

[42769vette]

How would using these rifle types affect number of deer killed if we stay inside our current bag limits? If hunter success goes up (I view that as a positive thing) the bag limits could be lowered.

I dont think it will effect it. The number of hunters hitting the woods with a 358 is such a small percentage of the hunters I cant see it would make a difference. Keep in mind you cant go to walmart and buy these guns, or ammo for these guns.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The rules in IN are confusing at best. As a former PA hunter for 40+ years, the rifles used there should never be allowed here in the flat lands. I've been on the other end of long shots and it would be a dangerous change for hunters. The new rifle rounds like the 358 are going to be seriously dangerous. I loved my 270, 308, and 30.06 but understand the reasons for handguns and shotguns.

Even if the danger was the real concern, the current regulations that make it expensive to buy into these high-power wildcats virtually eliminate the sloppy hunters that just want to go to walmart, buy a gun and box of ammo and trudge into the woods. The capital investment of the gun and the ammo is significant and therefore the great majority of people willing to buy into these wildcats are also likely smart, saft hunters that take the time to learn their weapon and know it's limitations and what is safe and what is not safe. If we open up the restrictions to allow a $400 walmart special and $15 box of ammo every single sloppy hunter out there will trudge into the woods with a gun they haven't sighted in or practices with and that they really don't understand how dangerous it can be.*

That last statement is somewhat stereotypical and generalizes most hunters as sloppy. I realize there are exceptions to that, I'm merely trying to convey my point.

 

[boostedtwo]

Im having a 358 Hoosier build right now, my father in law is a gun smith and he built himself one, I loved it so its my turn. It is kinda expensive to get all the components to create your own bullets though, so I think between the cost of the build and bullet cost that will keep alot of people away from it. The doner rifle im using is a brand new, never fired, savage model 11 chambered in 243.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

As a former PA hunter for 40+ years, the rifles used there should never be allowed here in the flat lands.

Ok, we've been over this over and over, but once more:

1. Rifle cartridges as used in PA are used in Indiana, yes, even against deer.

2. This has nothing to do with topography.

3. The PA study shows that shotgun slugs are far more dangerous than centerfire rifle cartridges.

4. Centerfire rifles are used against animal other than deer (OTD) game. What problems have transpired in Indiana in using centerfire cartridges on OTD game?

5. Centerfire rifle cartridges are used now in Indiana and in other states. Where in other states have there been problem(s) with their use? Where in Indiana has there been a problem(s) with their use?

 

[youngda9]

Starter form to reply to Kirk's questions
1. I think _____________
2. It seems ___________
3. I feel ______________
4. I bet ______________
5. I'm sure ___________

 

[woody1071]

I like that form youngda9.

I have jumped into the .358 ring myself. .358 Win short necks (cutting the necks to the legal length of 1.8"). I have everything done, I just need to load them and shoot them. I love to hunt deer and have always considered myself more of bowhunter, but this new opportunity has me excited about the upcoming firearms season for the first time in a long time. It is bringing new strategy to the hunt for me. I can't wait to shoot this gun and practice at the long distances to find my limitations and the gun's limitations. EXCITING! I got hooked on this idea from getting a .357 Mag reamed to Maximum. Shot a doe at 180 yards last year with it. I was in an open plowed field that I belly crawled to get this shot. It was a lot of work and a lot of fun! Now I'm looking at the possibility of extending that range another 100 yards!

 

[youngda9]

I like that form youngda9.

I have jumped into the .358 ring myself. .358 Win short necks (cutting the necks to the legal length of 1.8"). I have everything done, I just need to load them and shoot them. I love to hunt deer and have always considered myself more of bowhunter, but this new opportunity has me excited about the upcoming firearms season for the first time in a long time. It is bringing new strategy to the hunt for me. I can't wait to shoot this gun and practice at the long distances to find my limitations and the gun's limitations. EXCITING! I got hooked on this idea from getting a .357 Mag reamed to Maximum. Shot a doe at 180 yards last year with it. I was in an open plowed field that I belly crawled to get this shot. It was a lot of work and a lot of fun! Now I'm looking at the possibility of extending that range another 100 yards!

I've also thought about just trimming the 358 Win case down to 1.8"...but it leave you with just .15" of neck. (Take the full length of 2.015" and subtract the neck length of .365" and the lengto to the start of the neck is 1.65"...that only leaves 0.15" for a neck). I shoot only cast boolits in my 358W's, I'll have to see if that much neck is sufficient to support the boolits. I'm sure it would make for a single shot proposition...would think that cycling a round from the magazine to the chamber and even the recoil alone may be enough to move a boolit with respect to the case. I would have to full-length size to get the neck down by the shoulder to hold the boolit (I currently only 2/3 neck size for accuracy). Perhaps a crimp die could be used, but I prefer not to use those when shooting cast so as not to swage down the boolit which is a bad thing when shooting cast.

 

[woody1071]

I've also thought about just trimming the 358 Win case down to 1.8"...but it leave you with just .15" of neck. (Take the full length of 2.015" and subtract the neck length of .365" and the lengto to the start of the neck is 1.65"...that only leaves 0.15" for a neck). I shoot only cast boolits in my 358W's, I'll have to see if that much neck is sufficient to support the boolits. I'm sure it would make for a single shot proposition...would think that cycling a round from the magazine to the chamber and even the recoil alone may be enough to move a boolit with respect to the case. I would have to full-length size to get the neck down by the shoulder to hold the boolit (I currently only 2/3 neck size for accuracy). Perhaps a crimp die could be used, but I prefer not to use those when shooting cast so as not to swage down the boolit which is a bad thing when shooting cast.

This is a discussion from another forum that has lead me into this. I am doing this on a single shot H&R rifle. This was originally a .357 mag barrel that I had rechambered for the .358 Win. I am using a Hornady 200gr FTX bullet. This bullet doesn't boat-tail and the short neck holds it well enough that it doesn't need a crimp. The COL ends up being very close to the COL of a factory .358 Win. This discussion in the link has pics of range reports, loaded rounds, etc. I believe he even got them to cycle through a mag and hold accuracy.

.358 Winchester Short Neck

So when I am done with this my gun will still shoot factory .358Win and my shortnecks. Rather than going to the .358 Hoosier and being stuck with it being a wildcat only. Wayne York from Oregunsmithing did the work, which also included some extractor massaging. I did call some of the Indiana gun smiths and they wouldn't do the work saying the it was too much pressure for the H&R. I don't know if they realize that there are two different types of receivers for the H&R. There is a SB1 for low pressures and a SB2 for high pressures. H&R uses these on factory chambers that have higher pressures than the .358 Win. Mine is on an SB2, so I have no worries about this at all. Also, it's not like I'm going to shoot this gun a bunch. To get it sighted in and hunt with it. Not really a plinker!

 

[hem_ker]

wood1071 - I've been looking to buy an H&R SB2 to convert to 358 Hoosier... you heard of any Indiana gunsmiths who will do the conversion in the past couple months? If not, I guess I might be shipping to OR as well Thanks.

 

[Dixiejack]

Lots of people here used to hunt chucks with centerfires, when we still had them. So the 200-250 yard stuff isn't considered "long range" for many

What happened to the woodchucks? I was hoping to do some chuck hunting this Spring. Not trying to hijack the OP or change the subject, but this is the first reference I've read about woodchucks being extinct. I'm a newbie here in Indiana (moved here last March).

 

[ben992]

wood1071 - I've been looking to buy an H&R SB2 to convert to 358 Hoosier... you heard of any Indiana gunsmiths who will do the conversion in the past couple months? If not, I guess I might be shipping to OR as well Thanks.

I got a buddy in Celestine that has built a couple.

 

[42769vette]

What happened to the woodchucks? I was hoping to do some chuck hunting this Spring. Not trying to hijack the OP or change the subject, but this is the first reference I've read about woodchucks being extinct. I'm a newbie here in Indiana (moved here last March).

They are not extinct, but there are not near as many as there once was.

 

[6mm Shoot]

I had my 358 Hoosier built last year. I made the rounds for it. I worked up loads and practised with it this past Summer for this deer season. I now have a very accurate deer rifle and fifty rounds of tuned ammo for it. It has proven a very interesting project. I have a P.B.R. of 230 yards with a 6" kill zone. My average F.P.S. is 2470 out of five shots.

The cost has not been what I have herd some pay. I had a model 7 in 308 that was about useless in 308. It was inaccurate and punishing to shoot. It is now a pleasure to shoot and very accurate. As far as ammo cost, it isn't any more expensive than shooting a 308. That is if you make and load your own.

Some say that we shouldn't have to do this to shoot a deer with a rifle. The thing of it is that all laws that have been passed are what was lobbied for by groups that had the most power. Our laws are what came out of compromises between bow hunters and rifle hunters. Both wanting things there own way and neither got it. If you don't like the laws the way they are you can lobby for change or move to a state that uses what you want to shoot. Kentucky allows you to use any rifle from 22 centre fire on up. Our you can move to Ohio where you can only use a shotgun. Or you could stay here and use any thing from a hand gun, rifle or shotgun. We have it good.

You people that keep *****ing about not being able to use a 30-30 sound like Californians that want every one to do things their way. Get over your selves and quit telling the whoppers abut a shotgun being more dangerous than a rife. No matter how many times you say it is still not true. A one ounce slug will go to ground faster than a 200 gr bullet shot at almost twice the speed. Pure lead isn't as tough as a copper covered lead core. If a slug is so deadly and travels so far and is so much deadlier than a rifle why don't you use a slug gun? Because you know it isn't true. Rifles add distance and power well past what a shotgun can deliver.

 

[1$Chuck]

I have created this petition to change gun cartridge change for hunting in Indiana.
Please take some time and look into my petition and help me spread it around!

Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

I am a hunter and have been hunting for years here in Indiana, like most people I started hunting with my father. I love hunting because it's a way for me to get away from city life and relax. Recently, it has become an option for hunters in Indiana to use rifles, but the problem is rifles cartridges that we are allowed to use are very uncommon rounds for rifles. These cartridges are really pistol rounds and hunters could converted a normal rifle to a 358 Hoosier round. Hunters do not have enough options for hunting with common hunting rifle rounds. Many hunters need to have a custom gun made to use the cartridge that is allowed by the state of Indiana. It would be nice if we could bring out our grand fathers 1903 Springfield 30-06 and just go hunting or even use a brand new one off the shelf.

The rules for what we are able to use are both confusing and hard to
understand. It sounds as though we have a lot of choices in rifle cartridges but in reality we do not. I do not want to drive all the way to Kentucky in order to hunt with a 30-06, .308, or even a 7.62x54r. The states allowing rifle hunting are North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Michigan.
I would like to expand the hunting laws to allow rifles that are more common calibers for rifle hunting: .44 Mag, 30-30, .223, .243, 300 AAC BLK, 300 Whisper, 7mm-08, .308, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and 30-06. If you agree with what I request, please sign my petition. This petition will then be directed to Governor: Mike Pence, DNR Director: Cameron F. Clark, and Legislative Director: Chris Smith so we can make this change for the next hunting season 2013-2014.

In to comparison Indiana's Max Case length is 1.8 inches:

*.308 is 2.015" or 2.215" above current max
*7.62x54r is 2.115" or 2.315" above current max
*.30-06 is 2.494" or 2.694" above current max

These are the rules that the state of Indiana allows:

*Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger;

*have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches

*and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antler less seasons.

Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.

You might might want to check your math in your case length comparison

 

[Hookeye]

I dont think it will effect it. The number of hunters hitting the woods with a 358 is such a small percentage of the hunters I cant see it would make a difference. Keep in mind you cant go to walmart and buy these guns, or ammo for these guns.

Not the same, but I can go to Meijer and get Winchester .35 Rem ammo

 

[42769vette]

Not the same, but I can go to Meijer and get Winchester .35 Rem ammo

Correct me if Iim wrong, but I dont believe a factory 35 remington is a legal round. Dont you have to trim which means you have to reload.

 

[Hookeye]

Easily available ammo that just needs shot and trimmed.

Reloading? I can do it or have somebody do it for me.............like B&K in Peru.

Pretty darn hassle free, using a stock rifle too.

But not the long range stuff of the .358 Hoosier and similar.
Mean little woods rifle though.

 

[42769vette]

Easily available ammo that just needs shot and trimmed.

Reloading? I can do it or have somebody do it for me.............like B&K in Peru.

Pretty darn hassle free, using a stock rifle too.

But not the long range stuff of the .358 Hoosier and similar.
Mean little woods rifle though.

That will defintally put a deer on its butt. To me it all breaks down to the area you hunt. I use a 358 BFG, but I always have my 1187 with a 1-4 on it for certain stands I hunt. Ive got one stand that is mainly a bow stand, but I have gun hunted it, and with a 40yd MAX shot distance a 358 with 4-16 scope doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Hookeye]

One for one at 55 yds. Maybe I can crank one tomorrow at 150
The Choate/Magpul stock fit great with bumping it up a couple notches (heavy coat) but I hated the look.
If I get a Ruger #1 I might rebarrel to .358 Hoosier for a bean field rifle