.22LR Range Fun

[zachcz]

Left my computer in Lancaster Ohio,
but finally figured out how to post pics from my phone on INGO.
I had a blast shooting zachcz's
SW Victory with large grips
and,
the KelTec CP33.

SW Victory shot like it always has,
which is average when using a red dot (I expect better).
The KELTEC CP 33 really surprised me!!!
Felt great in the hand.
No issue at all with loading.
Good trigger.
Accuracy was as good as my best
22LR,
getting 100% on a row with a red dot at 30'
&
w/o optic did fine at 21'.

View attachment 222682

SW Victory with red dot
View attachment 222683

KelTec CP33 with red dot taken off
View attachment 222684

SW Victory with red dot
View attachment 222685

KelTec with red dot
View attachment 222686

KelTec iron sights only
View attachment 222687

The keltec is surprising for sure. I think victory can do better. I’m not sure if red dot is long term solution or not on it.

 

[doddg]

The keltec is surprising for sure. I think victory can do better. I’m not sure if red dot is long term solution or not on it.

That Venom red dot on the Victory was a 3MOA.
For me, the red dot was too large for precision shooting.
Maybe a contributing reason the
Keltec shot better.
I once had a SW Performance Center Victory with whatever red dot they come with,
and I was disappointed with its accuracy & didn't keep it long.

 

[zachcz]

That Venom red dot on the Victory was a 3MOA.
For me, the red dot was too large for precision shooting.
Maybe a contributing reason the
Keltec shot better.
I once had a SW Performance Center Victory with whatever red dot they come with,
and I was disappointed with its accuracy & didn't keep it long.

The victory is 3 Moa. The one on the keltec was 4 Moa so that seems odd to me.

As hard as I try I just think optics aren’t for me.

 

[doddg]

The victory is 3 Moa. The one on the keltec was 4 Moa so that seems odd to me.

As hard as I try I just think optics aren’t for me.

Says the guy that can shoot better free-hand than I can on a rest.

 

[doddg]

Couple of weeks ago I bought a new Bersa Thunder 22, my 3rd time doing so in the past few years.
I bought a used one here in the Classifieds last week to have fun testing them against each other like I enjoy doing.
I did that recently with two Taurus TXs & before that with two Beretta 92-22LR.

I've already put a few hundred rounds through the new Bersa (3rd) & I wanted to get the used one (4th) on the same targets today for easy comparison .
I sold the new Bersa, #3 today & kept the used Bersa, #4.
It was a toss of the coin practically speaking, as it usually is comparing the same two guns.

First, using 5.75" circles at 21'
Federal Automatch
Used Bersa, #4 on top & middle.
Adjusted windage 1 full turn to bring POI left.
New Bersa, #3 on bottom.
Adjusted windage 1/2 turn to bring POI left.


Second, using 3.75" circles at 21'
Used Aguila SE, 40 grain, SCN; CCI Mini-Mags & 1 circle of Federal AutoMatch.
#4 (used) top row & 3rd column.
#3 (new), 1st two circles in rows 1 & 2.


Federal AutoMatch at 21'.
Bersa #4 (used) on top row.
Bersa #3 (new) on 2nd row.


Lastly, using 2" green circles, with the beige circles being 1 & 5/16" circles.
Used CCI Mini-Mags at 15'.
Bersa #4 got 100% in 2" green circles.
Bersa #3 got 80% in 2" green circles.
If I would have shot more rows I believed scores could be reversed.
I like shooting multiple rows with the same gun & ammo.
I usually improve each row's score using the same gun on a sheet.
I was getting tired, so I didn't go that far today.

 

[zachcz]

Couple of weeks ago I bought a new Bersa Thunder 22, my 3rd time doing so in the past few years.
I bought a used one here in the Classifieds last week to have fun testing them against each other like I enjoy doing.
I did that recently with two Taurus TXs & before that with two Beretta 92-22LR.

I've already put a few hundred rounds through the new Bersa (3rd) & I wanted to get the used one (4th) on the same targets today for easy comparison .
I sold the new Bersa, #3 today & kept the used Bersa, #4.
It was a toss of the coin practically speaking, as it usually is comparing the same two guns.

First, using 5.75" circles at 21'
Federal Automatch
Used Bersa, #4 on top & middle.
Adjusted windage 1 full turn to bring POI left.
New Bersa, #3 on bottom.
Adjusted windage 1/2 turn to bring POI left.
View attachment 223982

Second, using 3.75" circles at 21'
Used Aguila SE, 40 grain, SCN; CCI Mini-Mags & 1 circle of Federal AutoMatch.
#4 (used) top row & 3rd column.
#3 (new), 1st two circles in rows 1 & 2.
View attachment 223983

Federal AutoMatch at 21'.
Bersa #4 (used) on top row.
Bersa #3 (new) on 2nd row.
View attachment 223984

Lastly, using 2" green circles, with the beige circles being 1 & 5/16" circles.
Used CCI Mini-Mags at 15'.
Bersa #4 got 100% in 2" green circles.
Bersa #3 got 80% in 2" green circles.
If I would have shot more rows I believed scores could be reversed.
I like shooting multiple rows with the same gun & ammo.
I usually improve each row's score using the same gun on a sheet.
I was getting tired, so I didn't go that far today.
View attachment 223985

You know you only sold the one you bought new bc it wasn’t all stainless!

 

[doddg]

You know you only sold the one you bought new bc it wasn’t all stainless!

Names Bersa calls it:
Finishes:
Duotone Matte Black Satin Nickel
Bersa Thunder 22 22LR Satin Nickel
satin nickel iteration
aluminum alloy frame and steel slide
Frame: Aluminum alloy

 

[doddg]

3 hours of fun with 270 rds of .22LR today with "newish" guns.
Picked up a Walther PPQ 4" barrel gun a few days ago.
Zachcz had a PPQ 5" that was interesting to shoot but he sold it & this 4" PPQ was in the Classifieds so I had to try out.
I continue to put more rounds through the little Bersa Thunder (my 4th) with all metal & hammer (sold #3 Bersa) & also,
the diminutive Beretta Bobcat 22A tip-up barrel that is a hoot.
Yesterday I bought a Kel-Tec CP33 from Zachcz which I had shot awhile back & to my surprise:
I loved it so much I bought it:
- fells good in the hand
- 33 rds with no issue loading (except fingers get tired, haha: love to have a "loader" for it)
- trigger is better than most stock triggers I've had
- a mix of green & red optic fiber sights have always been a great combination for my eyes
- 2 mags
- hardbox case
- responsive "clickable" rear adjustable sights

Few of my guns (with my eyes/hands) will do 100% consistently on the 1.75" circles.
This Kel-Tec did so early on.
I'll have to put a red dot on it so I can shoot it at 30'.
I love the fiber optics on it so much, I'm in no hurry, though!
21' on 1.75" circles with 5 rds each circle
CCI MM


21" on 5.75" circles for 1st initial test
CCI MM


21' on 3.75" circles x3 .22LR guns


15' using CCI MM on 1.75" circles
I use 15' for the smaller .22LRs that don't have a long enough barrel for accuracy at 21'.
I'm hoping the Walther PPQ 4" barrel would have done better, but it isn't a target gun
but a plinker.
Maybe after working with it I can do this at 21'.

 

[doddg]

Ready with 4 brands of ammo today
but,
only used CCI Mini-Mags, except for a magazine of Federal AutoMatch


The four .22LR guns today ready to go:
- Kel-Tec CP33
- Walther PPQ 4"
- Bersa Thunder
- Beretta Bobcat


Walther PPQ 4"


rear sights, the small hex screw is the windage: strange.


Beretta Bobcat tip-up barrel.


Sights painted so I can see something to aim with, haha!


Bersa Thunder with red dot front & rear sights showing.

 

[700 LTR 223]

That Venom red dot on the Victory was a 3MOA.
For me, the red dot was too large for precision shooting.
Maybe a contributing reason the
Keltec shot better.
I once had a SW Performance Center Victory with whatever red dot they come with,
and I was disappointed with its accuracy & didn't keep it long.

A 3 MOA should be pretty good for target shooting but from a rest a scope is probably best especially as the distance increases. Have a 2 MOA Ultradot on the Victory and shot some targets Friday. I'll probably try a new trigger later. At 50 yards slow fire and 25 yards timed fire. This barrel likes CCI Std. Vel. like my other Smiths , 617 and Model 41.

 

[doddg]

2nd time with my latest favorite: Kel-Tec CP33, today.
Never gave Kel-Tec a 2nd look until I shot the CP33 Zackcz owned, then I had to buy it.
Used only CCI Mini-Mags x130 rounds.
No problem loading magazine.
I did have issues with the 1st round on a fresh mag loading properly: it doesn't want to "seat" all the way in chamber.
It could just need cleaned?

Put a Dagger Defense red dot on it I picked up for $50 over a year ago.
It is one of my favorites b/c it has a choice of red or green dot, which I used the green on the red circles today, & 4 different reticles, but I just use the smallest dot.

My goal for keeper for accuracy is 100% (at least 90%) with an optic at 30', which was accomplished.
21' had tighter groups.
45' I was pleased with & don't usually even try but the Kel-Tec impressed me, so I had to try.


7 pics adjusting the red dot with less than a .75" dot (11/16").

 

[doddg]

2nd range time with the Walther PPQ.
After shooting the 5" barrel Zackcz had, I bought this 4" b/c I enjoyed the feel of the Walther.
Since I've bought a few guns lately for fun to try out, it is time to trim the safe of 4 guns.
I've already sold one & the others I'll put in the Classifieds in another week since I'm not going to be available this weekend.

Shooting at 21' like I do all non-optic guns.

 

[DadSmith]

I finally decided to shoot my TX22 last night. Didn't have much time so I took two magazines full and at 21' I mag dumped both magazines just to see how it would preform. I normally never do mag dumps unless testing function and reliability. So I guess it was just that. I used Winchester M☆22.
It shot about 3" lower than point of aim. I put on a fiber optic sight on the front and wanted to test it but had to hurry. So when it isn't raining I'm going to put it on a rest and see if it's the sight or me pushing the front down before firing. I have a feeling the sight is the problem because the original sight didn't do it. The new sight is slightly taller but didn't think it was enough to change POI by that much.

 

[doddg]

An INGO friend had me take his unfired Ruger Mark 4 .22LR to the range to check it out.
I've had at 5-6 of the Mark 4 in the past 5+ yrs.
I like them but I end up selling after playing with them b/c I will have others that are more accurate.
I do like the metal frame, though, instead of polymer.

I used 6 different brands of ammo today.
1st shots were not too far off.
I didn't bother to take a pick of the gun since everyone knows what a Mark 4 looks like.

3.75" circles adjusting windage to the right & elevation up a hair.
21' with iron sights on bean bag.
10 rds each circle.


21' iron sights with 10 rds each circle.
6 different brands of ammo.
I could have gotten more 10/10 (100%) in a circle if I would have stayed with 1 brand & got used to its nuances.
85 rds out of 100 rds inside the 1.75" circles = 85% as I do my scoring.


Found an April 2019 target for one of my Mark 4s.
21' iron sights
The red oblong circle is about a 2" x 3", if memory serves.
After adjusting, the bottom #4 & #5 targets approximate results for the Mark 4 I shot today.


Found this Febr. 2020 target with another of my Mark 4s with a scope on it.
5 rds per circle at 30' since using scope.
36/50 rds inside 1.75" = 72%.
I obviously was adjusting the scope since #1 target POI was all low.
Circles 5-8 were good, although disappointing since using an optic.
I don't know what happened on targets 9 & 10???
I suspect it was scope related.


Febr. 2020 target where I tried a red dot instead of scope.
Went to 30' again since using an optic.
Looks like I already had it dialed in.
40/50 = 80% (not acceptable with an optic, must be 90% or not keep)


May 2020 with a different Mark 4.
21' no optics.
Mark 4 on bottom row.
This was only a 4" Buckmark, not the 7.25" which does better.
Later I got & keep a 10" Buckmark that is sensational.
Red circles:
- Ruger Mark 4 = x10 rds (maybe really 14 rds?)
- Browning Buckmark = x14 rds (maybe really 20rds?)
10 rds instead of 5 in each circle & when I look at it now it seems like the count was really higher for both of them???

 

[doddg]

Took 3 handguns to the range today and realized I had bought each from Zackcz with every gun scoring 100% 20/20 rds in 1.75" circles.
Non-optic guns (TX & Heritage) at 21'
and
the red dot on the Kel-Tec CP33 at 30'.
Next time I might use 1" circles to tighten up & differentiate the scoring.

Taurus TX at 21' using Aguila SE Eley Prime SLN


Kel-Tec w/red dot at 30' using Aguila SE Eley Prime SLN


Heritage 16" using CCI Mini-Mags

 

[TJ Kackowski]

@doddg ... Please don't take any of this the wrong way, but it's becoming apparent that the nice groups you are currently posting (or whatever convoluted system of hits in the circle that you use) are not due to the firearm/ammo combination so much as you are becoming a better shooter.

It's been a long, and sometimes ardous, journey watching your shooting abilities mature. Through perservance and hard work, you have become quite the shooter! I tip my hat to you.

 

[doddg]

@doddg ... Please don't take any of this the wrong way, but it's becoming apparent that the nice groups you are currently posting (or whatever convoluted system of hits in the circle that you use) are not due to the firearm/ammo combination so much as you are becoming a better shooter.

It's been a long, and sometimes ardous, journey watching your shooting abilities mature. Through perservance and hard work, you have become quite the shooter! I tip my hat to you.

No offense taken, only delight.
I've never had any illusions as to my level of shooting in the past 5.5 yrs., but glad to see more guns are getting the 100% on the circles
I would credit the guns, though, since I've cycled through & sold everything that couldn't do at least 90%, except for a couple of outlier guns like the Taurus Bobcat 22 tip-up & the Bersa 22 all metal w/hammer.
If I shot free hand, instead of on a rest, you'd take it all back, haha!

 

[doddg]

Had a chance to shoot Zachcz's Taurus TX Competition gun with a red dot today.
That's the good news.
The bad news is that it wasn't doing any better than my regular TX last week.
Then, disaster, the red dot fell off, so it could have been due to it gradually working loose?
The range master found the battery, 2 screws & a plate that fit under the battery.
My eyes weren't up to it, haha!

So, I just shot it with the iron sights with white dots.
The Competition model didn't do as well as my regular TX I shot last week, even though it has a longer sight radius & is heavier.
But, perhaps it was the brand of ammo, Federal AutoMatch, that I used today
or,
I was not up to form myself.
I shot from a bean bag rest, though.
I prefer to blame the ammo when this happens, haha!

Example of not getting 100% on rows that my regular TX did last week using Aguila SE ammo.


Target from last week using my regular TX with Aguila SE ammo.


An example when using the red dot before it fell off.
3 rds great, but 2 flyers, which happened a few times today & maybe due to gradual loosening of screws for red dot.

 

[zachcz]

I think it will shoot as well or better. If
I remember right the first few trips with tx22 you weren’t shooting it well. Need to get a decent red dot and not the Walmart special that only god knows where it came from. At least it needs longer/better screws LOL. It shoots as accurate from memory or your targets and most run of mill target guns. I’m super happy with it

 

[doddg]

I think it will shoot as well or better. If
I remember right the first few trips with tx22 you weren’t shooting it well. Need to get a decent red dot and not the Walmart special that only god knows where it came from. At least it needs longer/better screws LOL. It shoots as accurate from memory or your targets and most run of mill target guns. I’m super happy with it

Good memory!

This illustrates your point back on July 22, 2022 back when I was trying out the TX before I bought it.
Wasn't able to get 100% on a row at that time using 4 brands of ammo.
Looks like it's a good thing I didn't take a bucket of Rem. Golden Bullets today to try out your TX Competition model (only 65%).