1st and 2nd Amendment Audits.

[US1882]

in the past couple weeks I’ve come across a rather large group of videos on You Tube with people with cameras filming in public places and sometimes open carrying just to get a rise out of the general public and more often law enforcement. Some of these date back 10 years so I guess it’s been going on for a number of years. Just wondering how aware everyone is that these are happening and what your thoughts are?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

What do you think of them?

 

[WebSnyper]

I generally think if you go looking for a reaction, you will find it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I've never once thought about this. Well, until now. Okay now I've thought about it twice. Dammit! I'm out.

 

[US1882]

I think that it’s more pressure on a work force that’s getting attacked from all angles. Doesn’t seem to be a topic that others are interested in. I will show myself out.

 

[gregr]

I believe it works both ways. I believe there have been well meaning law enforcement who harassed regular people exercising their Second Amendment rights, as well as people provoking law enforcement.

 

[fjw2]

I think that it’s more pressure on a work force that’s getting attacked from all angles. Doesn’t seem to be a topic that others are interested in. I will show myself out.

Well that didn’t take long. Give it some time, will ya? Kick back and see if it comes back your way. It might not, but chill out and stick around for a bit.

 

[KellyinAvon]

From what I've seen, a lot of these are not well thought out. Walk into a Police Station with an un-slung AK? How would I react to someone coming to my house with an un-slung AK?

We've seen the Officer Maxeys and that other clown from up north with his hat on backwards who didn't know OC was legal in Indiana. Thankfully there aren't that many of them.

Don't do dumb **** that might get you shot. That's some really good advice right there!

 

[1mil-high]

From what I've seen, a lot of these are not well thought out. Walk into a Police Station with an un-slung AK? How would I react to someone coming to my house with an un-slung AK?

We've seen the Officer Maxeys and that other clown from up north with his hat on backwards who didn't know OC was legal in Indiana. Thankfully there aren't that many of them.

Don't do dumb **** that might get you shot. That's some really good advice right there!

Nothing wrong with educating people, but there is a way to be an a$$ about it. Most of these "auditors" are out looking for a reaction, attention, or basis for a law suit rather than legitimately wanting the public to be informed.

BUT there are exceptions to this as well. I have seen several videos of people that are doing it the "right way" and being respectful towards others and LEO while, say open carrying a pistol. These types of encounters are going to build rapport and mutual respect and education so much more that the idiot on the street corner "aM I bEiNg dEtAiNeD" over and over again obnoxiously.

Rights are great, but when the rights are abused and used without proper tact they will come under scrutiny.

 

[1nderbeard]

I think it's one of the stupidest things someone could do for multiple reasons.

I would never call attention to the fact I was carrying, for my own safety.

You'll never engage someone opposed to firearms in a positive manner. They will either assume you're about to shoot them, or will assume you're an idiot. Either way, they will likely run away from you and call the police.

The best thing that could happen when you interact with the police that will almost certainly be contacting you is they tell you you're an idiot and drive one. The worst thing is you might get shot. Either way you're making their job more difficult.

This will not progress the 2A cause.

**I'm not talking about carrying a holstered firearm (Open carry), I'm talking about carrying a slung/unslung rifle.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you're going to do it, don't have evening plans.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'll have you know that SOME of us do not need a camera to get reactions out of police.

Ways Kirk has gotten a rise out of the police:

1. Getting coffee in Broad Ripple.
2. Paying for grass in Wheatfield, Indiana, interruption cop hitting on cashier
3. Speaking out against police income tax in Lafayette (attempted road run off and cover up)
4. Eating breakfast tacos in uniform at Lincoln Square near IUPUI.

 

[printcraft]

Ways Kirk has gotten a rise out of the police:
2. Paying for grass in Wheatfield, Indiana, interruption cop hitting on cashier

Well, yeah, that will get some attention from the police...

 

[IndyTom]

I have seen a number of both types of videos. Sometimes it seems that bringing a lawsuit up is the only way to get meaningful change and there have been several of those on the 1A side that appear to have caused training and regulations to be changed within departments.

I won’t say that all of the 2A ones are doing anything good, but I’ve also seen guys in the middle of nowhere, with their son, on a hike, get sprawled out on the ground for having slung and holstered weapons for no good reason (responding to “I saw a guy with a gun” calls in the worst possible way). Of course then there are the guys where the officer wasn’t being anything but courteous who respond like total jack wagons and that doesn’t help anyone.

 

[Sylvain]

I actually follow some of those "auditors" on Youtube.

You have good and bad ones.
Some are just harassing the police, acting like idiots and being rude.

Others are polite, respectful and don't provoke the police.
They usually just stand outside a public building and people call the police because they're somehow afraid of a man holding a cellphone.

They see a man holding a camera (and sometimes carrying a gun) so they call a second man with a gun and a camera (police officer) to the rescue.

Usually the officer just end up telling people it's legal to film.

It seems a lot of people don't understand that there's no expectation of privacy if you're in a public place.

I've seen both good and bad interactions with police officers.

 

[rosejm]

Most of the appropriate audits have been focused on educating responding officers & departments.

Typically: "We got a call from random stranger, ID and prepare to be searched! We are seizing your property because we are about to escalate this encounter."
While that might be nice for the public to consent to, it is not required in all cases/States.

No observable unlawful behavior? No need for investigation. This is what happens for "reckless driving" complaints...

And frankly, in the areas where appropriate audits are happening, the officers and department heads ARE being educated in the lawful exercise of our natural rights. Progress is being made, albeit slowly and sporadically. It's a matter of training and education to know "man-with-a-gun" is not illegal/dangerous in itself, and where that line is.

 

[Sylvain]

Most of the appropriate audits have been focused on educating responding officers & departments.

Typically: "We got a call from random stranger, ID and prepare to be searched! We are seizing your property because we are about to escalate this encounter."
While that might be nice for the public to consent to, it is not required in all cases/States.

No observable unlawful behavior? No need for investigation. This is what happens for "reckless driving" complaints...

And frankly, in the areas where appropriate audits are happening, the officers and department heads ARE being educated in the lawful exercise of our natural rights. Progress is being made, albeit slowly and sporadically. It's a matter of training and education to know "man-with-a-gun" is not illegal/dangerous in itself, and where that line is.

The general public also need some education.

In a lot of videos I have seen people just call the police to report non-existent crimes, like a photograph taking pictures from a public sidewalk (not even carrying a gun).

 

[KellyinAvon]

Well, yeah, that will get some attention from the police...

I think you’ve identified the reason for getting Police attention here.

 

[Blazer90]

Personally they were annoying and happened all the time when I was on the west coast in my job.

I think they do have their proper time and place. Asking questions and shoving cameras in public workers faces at say the health department, or prosecutors office, postal offices.
I really don’t see the need for it at those types of locations. Those are just regular folks working a govt. job and whose rights are the film crews going to film being violated ?

I can say that filming police interaction is a good thing and I was never bothered by it. Those that are bothered by it are definitely hiding something. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rosejm]

The general public also need some education.

In a lot of videos I have seen people just call the police to report non-existent crimes

I won't disagree with you there. I'm just trying to narrow the number of targets down for the first phase of re-education. Much harder for the public to learn to exercise them if those rights are being infringed upon by policy/procedure.

Seems the ones we hire to know & enforce the laws should do so. Trying to educate even the average person in the exercise of their rights seems a challenge. And half of the people are below average.

We have people calling police because "they can't control their 12y old" or "Pizza Barn won't deliver here, can you deliver it?" or "can you check on XXX, they won't respond to my FB messages..." Rather than having a conversation with the photographer, their first response is "Call the police".

Lots of people aren't able to simply go on about their business and leave others to theirs.
I blame "See something, say something." especially when it's something as visible & obviously non-threatening as a guy with flags/signs/clothing & multiple video cameras in broad daylight.