17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[jbombelli]

That's already been answered. I suggest you read my and churchmouse's exchange.

I'm posting from my phone and it's a PITA so perhaps you can answer that directly.

I didn't see you specifically address that question on this page (I didn't check the previous page because, again, posting from phone). I saw you mention what you're trained to do in certain circumstances, but I'm not convinced you'd do it.

Unless you're a hypocrite. You're not a hypocrite are you?

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I was speaking of his MMA skill. In the grand scheme of things it makes no difference, he may thought Tae Bo qualified as MMA. But the claim still stands. Zimmerman wasn't that good at MMA (as it is currently understood), if he trained in it 3 days a week, and taken so much to task by and unarmed untrained lighter opponent, that he resorted to using a firearm.

I don't care who you are. Get jumped at night and get hit in the head before you know to defend yourself and you're going down. And btw, "resorted to using a firearm"? What are you, an anti-gun plant at work here?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm posting from my phone and it's a PITA so perhaps you can answer that directly.

I didn't see you specifically address that question on this page (I didn't check the previous page because, again, posting from phone). I saw you mention what you're trained to do in certain circumstances, but I'm not convinced you'd do it.

Unless you're a hypocrite. You're not a hypocrite are you?

I not concerned what you'd be convinced of or not. My thoughts are quite clear on the subject on the previous page. You'll have to accept that as you answer, as you've lost the ability to directly question me and expect to receive an answer.

I don't care who you are. Get jumped at night and get hit in the head before you know to defend yourself and you're going down. And btw, "resorted to using a firearm"? What are you, an anti-gun plant at work here?

TiminMishawaka, how in the world you get that to mean that I am anti-gun?

TiminMishawaka, "resort" means to "turn to and adopt" or "alternative" means when another means is inadequate. Zimmerman's MMA training was "inadequate" thus he "adopted" or "turned to" an "alternative" form of self-defense.... hypothetically, of course.

TiminMishawaka, what you have just posted is a "red herring," diverting from the immediate topic that you and I were discussing; Zimmerman training in MMA, and my premise that he was not very good at it.

TiminMishawaka, according to Zimmerman, he wasn't "jumped" or taken by surprise in terms of an immediate attack out of nowhere. The two apparently exchanged words, during a tense situation, and then a fight commenced.

TiminMishawaka, a "good" MMA practioneer, versus an unseasoned opponent, more likely than not would have been prepared to deflect the attack, and adequately defend themselves.

 

[teknickle]

Since it was asked for a source (and a simple Google search brings up dozens of news sources with this info from yesterday).
Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Indicted for Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant

And it isn't "meaningless" (read any of the articles to understand why).

 

[Hawkeye]

WOW! This thread has really reached mammoth proportions. And it seems to have done so merely because of obstinacy and arrogance. We've definitely got preconceived positions laid out in detail, and that is truly all that is "in evidence" here.

 

[cobber]

If someone is walking through a neighborhood, and a police officer follows him 'for no reason', is he entitled to pummel the officer?

And as long as the injury(ies) aren't yet life threatening, the officer has to respond in kind, and is not entitled to end the threat?

Interesting. I think someone here can expect to get subpoenaed as an expert witness in a future Battery on a Law Enforcement Officer trial. Or perhaps in a Wrongful Death suit filed against X Department after a fatal police shooting.

 

[churchmouse]

That's a fair question, absolutely. Never. In fact, we are taught to use deadly force if "the light starts to fad and everything is blue and pink." Even if Zimmerman started the fight, I think Martin wouldve taken it too far, enabling Zimmerman to employ deadly force.
My issue, is that I simply don't believe Martin slammed Zimmerman's head against the concrete the "dozen" times as he indicated. I am not a medical professional, but the injuries on the back of his head don't seem to sync up with the extreme violence indicated, by Zimmerman, to be coming from Martin as he bashed his head against the concrete.
I've never believed that. It's a dozen times... not one, not two, not three, not four, not five.... but a dozen. I'd like the think that the injuries would be much more serious if true.

Good points.
On the flip side of that, I have seen a few good bar brawls that the looser swears he was hit far more times than he actually was. Hard to count when the brain is being bounced off the inside of your skull.
It has been my experience that what I remember to have happened in these situations is not what others recollect.
I am not making excuses for "Z" as none of us were there and as stated by you and others......we really do not know.
"Z" could be one of those soft individuals with a low threshold/tolerance for pain. Nobody wants to get hit and some less than others.
He could have blacked out during this exchange. Again, no way of knowing.
One witness said the attack seemed to escalate when he said 911 was being called. When "T" brought on the rain of fists who really knows how frightened "Z" was at that point. I seriously doubt that "Z" started the physical part of that series of events. I do believe that "T" doubled back with the intent to beat him down. It was in his nature. "Z" should have went back to his car after he lost him.

I better understand your feelings on this now but I will have to say we are all just speculating.

Get me down like that and my only way back up is to end you, believe me, I am getting back up. Life is precious.

 

[churchmouse]

I was speaking of his MMA skill. In the grand scheme of things it makes no difference, he may thought Tae Bo qualified as MMA. But the claim still stands. Zimmerman wasn't that good at MMA (as it is currently understood), if he trained in it 3 days a week, and taken so much to task by and unarmed untrained lighter opponent, that he resorted to using a firearm.

If he really did train then yes....he totally sucked. Huge gap between training and being able to use it.
As stated I do not see this man as having the skills to stand toe to toe and throw.
But, a younger angrier man can over whelm a person larger than himself with sheer tenacity.

 

[Expat]

I knew a guy that decided to take up some sort of fighting sports in his middle years. He thought he was doing real well during training. First actual match, he got his ass handed to him. His leg was broken in a couple places by his much younger opponent.

 

[cobber]

I knew a guy that decided to take up some sort of fighting sports in his middle years. He thought he was doing real well during training. First actual match, he got his ass handed to him. His leg was broken in a couple places by his much younger opponent.

I took up taekwondo in my late 40s. Even though I received my black belt, I'm under no illusions about my 'fighting skills'. Bricks fear me though.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This morning's evidentiary issue should be interesting. Using your training against you is a topic on INGO from time to time.

 

[dvcori]

Sounds like he was looking for trouble and found it. He should have backed off like instructed by the police

 

[ArcadiaGP]

This morning's evidentiary issue should be interesting. Using your training against you is a topic on INGO from time to time.

Did they mention the school records situation yet? Wondering if the defense was able to get that thrown out

I like how O'Mara responded yesterday, "We've taken great pains to keep TM's school records out of this..."

 

[Expat]

Sounds like he was looking for trouble and found it. He should have backed off like instructed by the police

 

[Hotdoger]

Sounds like he was looking for trouble and found it. He should have backed off like instructed by the police

Where are you getting he didn't back off?

 

[BigMatt]

Sounds like he was looking for trouble and found it. He should have backed off like instructed by the police

Why didn't I think of that? That completely changed my mind. Let's burn him at the stake!

 

[Hotdoger]

This morning's evidentiary issue should be interesting. Using your training against you is a topic on INGO from time to time.

Could TVs fighting then no be brought into evidence?

 

[Hotdoger]

Sounds like he was looking for trouble and found it. He should have backed off like instructed by the police

Again for YOU and the Carmel City Att. :

O’Mara noted that Serino was leading an investigative team, gathering and sharing evidence ,that included all levels of the Sanford Police Department up to the Chief, and even members of the 18 Circuit State Prosector’s office. Asked if there was ANYTHING that Zimmerman had said that contradicted the wealth of evidence possessed by Serino, the Investigator answered, “No, sir.” No physical evidence, no witness evidence, no officer statements, nothing? “No, sir.”

 

[jbombelli]

I not concerned what you'd be convinced of or not. My thoughts are quite clear on the subject on the previous page. You'll have to accept that as you answer, as you've lost the ability to directly question me and expect to receive an answer.

You didn't address it. Once again you've done the ol' Kutnupe Two Step. You've not answered the question, you've sidestepped it, you've deflected away from it, and then pretended you answered it.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. That's all you EVER do.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You didn't address it on the previous page. Once again you've done the ol' Kutnupe Two Step. You've not answered the question, you've sidestepped it, you've deflected away from it, and then pretended you answered it.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. That's all you EVER do.

On this subject, some aspiring politician on Twitter condemned Z for killing someone "3x smaller" than himself, who was unarmed.

I called out her BS, citing that TM was 4 inches taller than Z, and his "fists" are the weapon.

She didn't address the fabrication, yet she did address me with an elipses "...", and called me a troll.

So, sidestepping BS is quite common in the world. Although, I have not kept up on your conversation with Kut, so I can't speak to it.