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Why the hate for Cyclists?
- Thread starter AndreusMaximus
- Start date
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Just how is this to be accomplished? Why are individuals responsible for someone else's behavior? Does this apply to other groups?
Hatin Since 87
Bacon Hater
Yes. Do we not continually discuss, advocate for, and teach firearm safety? We condemn those who do stupid things and try to educate new gun owners the correct way to do things, for safety, and to ensure we are not giving a bad image to those on the fence about guns. Why would cyclists not want the same for their community?
There are plenty of bicycle advocacy groups. You stated the cyclists should hold other cyclists accountable. I'm asking how. Talking safety isn't holding anyone accountable. Advocating for something isn't accountability.
Hatin Since 87
Bacon Hater
I literally just explained it. Just like when members of the firearm community does something stupid how we call them out and teach them the right way to do something. If youre riding and see a cyclists run a stop sign, tell them how stupid it is and how it ruins the image for all the ones doing it correctly.
Why do cyclists always defend the actions of other cyclists or make excuses for them? This is why they receive the hate that they do. A lot of them deserve it.
And for the “but motorsists” responses… im not defending motorists breaking laws. If a motorists breaks a law i hope they receive a fine for it. Cyclists are avidly defending other cyclists breaking the law. I dont understand that.
andrewhorning
Marksman
This is why we can all hate drivers, too.
Face it; we humans suck. We point fingers of blame at everybody but ourselves for all the nasty stuff we do to each other. We blame politicians or God or both for failing to keep a tighter leash on us.
Sigh...
andrewhorning
Marksman
Well, young frat boys are an entirely separate social/legal problem. (see the documentary, Animal House)
You need to get out more, you live in a bubble if this is true. Sure maybe in the confines of a gun club, but guess what? The same thing happens in bike groups or clubs! Just like at gun clubs there will be those that no matter how much we try they are dangerous and we work it out that they are not welcome back, there will be others we tolerate but keep an eye on because they will do something dangerous if not watched.
Now when the anti’s are trying to take guns, even if a gun owner does something stupid we do not join them in trying to take guns, and we certainly don’t join them in bashing gun owners in general.
I suspect the majority of anti-bicycling people are not even in shape to ride a bike.
An interesting connection of cyclists to gun owners is that the same meticulous nature that drives the high level INGO members to the best mods and upgrades of their guns, the learning how to do it yourself, and a near obsession with perfection are a common ground with many high level cyclists.
But alas those that understand that certain gear has logical reasons for shooters cannot seem to fathom the same applies to cycling. I bet a lot of you think it is ok to shoot or bicycle in flip flops…
andrewhorning
Marksman
Amen.
Sixty pounds ago I used to race bicycles, and often rode in big group training rides. Yes, young people can get amped up on endorphins and machismo. Young people can be just as bad as grownups...but never as dangerous.
With two square inches of 100+psi tire contact, no shocks or springs on a 20# bicycle, bikers can't cause nearly the havoc of a distracted, fast-food munching average voter road raging 2-3 tons of metal at over a mile a minute.
There's a reason drivers who hit somebody from behind are considered at fault.
Remember, the reason we have cops and laws and corrupt politicians is because we can't behave. If more of us could get our $#!+ together, our government would shrink down to a size where we wouldn't need military equipment and 'roid-enhanced cops in our streets.
We could all use a fat dose of humility, I think.
AndreusMaximus
Master
Despite multiple times of me asking, I don't believe I've ever managed to get a single example from you of something that you would consider rude behavior on the road by a cyclist. Please do correct me if I missed it.You need to get out more, you live in a bubble if this is true. Sure maybe in the confines of a gun club, but guess what? The same thing happens in bike groups or clubs! Just like at gun clubs there will be those that no matter how much we try they are dangerous and we work it out that they are not welcome back, there will be others we tolerate but keep an eye on because they will do something dangerous if not watched.
Now when the anti’s are trying to take guns, even if a gun owner does something stupid we do not join them in trying to take guns, and we certainly don’t join them in bashing gun owners in general.
I suspect the majority of anti-bicycling people are not even in shape to ride a bike.
An interesting connection of cyclists to gun owners is that the same meticulous nature that drives the high level INGO members to the best mods and upgrades of their guns, the learning how to do it yourself, and a near obsession with perfection are a common ground with many high level cyclists.
But alas those that understand that certain gear has logical reasons for shooters cannot seem to fathom the same applies to cycling. I bet a lot of you think it is ok to shoot or bicycle in flip flops…
On the other hand, I see threads almost daily on INGO about gun owners doing such and such stupid thing, and they are routinely mocked without anyone making excuses for them. See this thread that just popped up:
Bloomington Man (instead of Florida Man)
https://bloomingtonian.com/2024/03/19/man-injures-hand-in-accidental-shooting-at-rural-king/
So no, these two communities (cyclists/gun owners) are not the same.
Yep, you don’t have the open mind you claim because even when clearly laid out you cannot even see the point. I said:Despite multiple times of me asking, I don't believe I've ever managed to get a single example from you of something that you would consider rude behavior on the road by a cyclist. Please do correct me if I missed it.
On the other hand, I see threads almost daily on INGO about gun owners doing such and such stupid thing, and they are routinely mocked without anyone making excuses for them. See this thread that just popped up:
Bloomington Man (instead of Florida Man)
https://bloomingtonian.com/2024/03/19/man-injures-hand-in-accidental-shooting-at-rural-king/www.indianagunowners.com
So no, these two communities (cyclists/gun owners) are not the same.
“Now when the anti’s are trying to take guns, even if a gun owner does something stupid we do not join them in trying to take guns, and we certainly don’t join them in bashing gun owners in general.”
INGO is “in the clubhouse” to most here, this is pro-gun space for all gun talk. There sometimes is dissent here too. This is not the bike club forum, there you will find similar discussions of bad bike behavior (at least when I participated regularly) and if anti-gun came up I argued it just as vociferously. You know, crap like “I know it’s legal to carry a gun on a bike but…” often the exact same sentence structure as used here to say bikes shouldn’t be on the road.
I can tell you one thing, I will not join the bashing of gun owners in a bike forum and will not bash bicyclists in a gun forum, but I will argue with the a-holes on both forums…
AndreusMaximus
Master
I really don't get this logic. You claim that I'm not seeing your point because I'm not open-minded, but honestly, I just really can't grasp what you're saying.
You basically seem to be making the argument that since most of INGO is anti-bicycle, you have therefore adopted a policy of refusing to admit that any cyclist can ever engage in rude behavior; of defending all cyclists of any type and making up excuses for any behavior, no matter how egregious, and refusing to acknowledge any limits on what cyclists should be allowed to do. Up to and including saying you think cyclists should be given a pass when they ignore traffic laws.
Do you honestly do this when you're talking to anti-gun people? If you were on your bike forum, where there is a general anti-gun animus, and the example I just posted of someone shooting himself in the hand at a RK gun counter came up, would you start coming up with excuses for that guy? Start pointing the finger at cyclists and saying that they are just as bad? Refuse to acknowledge his egregious disregard for safety rules?
If so, that's a very bad idea. I can tell you with a great deal of certainty, that refusing to acknowledge or condemn the bad apples in your group does not with over people to your side. For me, I don't care what group of people I'm talking to, if someone points out bad behavior by a gun owner, I'm going to agree that it's bad behavior.
Yes, I know you've very vaguely and begrudgingly referenced that there may be some poorly behaved cyclists out there, but you've never given any concrete examples. Any example, whether hypothetical or real, that has been brought up to you, you have always defended the cyclist's behavior. You seem to think that cyclists should be allowed to hold up traffic as long as they please, disregard traffic laws as they see fit, ride anywhere at any time, and no one should be allowed to complain about it, ever. If this isn't true, then please, for heaven's sake, let me know what limits there actually are to what you believe cyclists should be able to do before we consider them rude.
A few pages back I asked you about pulling off the road to let traffic pass (which is, if I understand correctly, a requirement by law.) It had been posted that shoulders, driveways, bike lanes, and just about anything else I can think of, are all too dangerous for cyclists to use to pull over. So I asked you if there is any spot you do consider safe for a cyclist to pull off the road? Despite a long post in response, I couldn't make out any answer to this question. Again, if the answer was there and I was just missing it due to being close-minded, please do point it out to me.
I've never argued that bicycles should be banned from roads, or even for registration or insurance requirements. Before this preposterously long thread, I didn't really have any opposition or dislike of any sort for cyclists. I hate to say it, but your strategy of defend all cyclists of all kinds engaging in any sort of behavior, has really started to drive me in the other direction.
No, it's mainly just cyclists.
What problem of mine have I articulated here? How much nonsense are you going to project onto me in this thread?
This is my stance. So, why do you keep trying to - incorrectly - place me in the other stance?
Part of the problem is you have unrealistic standards, and you do make excuses for your own groupDespite multiple times of me asking, I don't believe I've ever managed to get a single example from you of something that you would consider rude behavior on the road by a cyclist. Please do correct me if I missed it.
On the other hand, I see threads almost daily on INGO about gun owners doing such and such stupid thing, and they are routinely mocked without anyone making excuses for them. See this thread that just popped up:
Bloomington Man (instead of Florida Man)
https://bloomingtonian.com/2024/03/19/man-injures-hand-in-accidental-shooting-at-rural-king/
So no, these two communities (cyclists/gun owners) are not the same.
I see lots of posts with 'the majority of cyclists ...' and 'most cyclists ...' used in this thread without any underlying statistics or documentation. The level of claimed interaction between the random INGO motorist and bicyclists doesn't statistically match well with the population of each. To read most of this thread is to be told that large groups of cyclists are common everywhere, riding 3 and 4 abreast and making life intolerable for all motorists everywhere when that is simply inaccurate stereotyping
Then discussion proceeds to how cyclists don't follow the laws, where absolute obedience is required of cyclists while not so much from your fellow motorists. If cyclists are just running stop signs as claimed, then darwinism will solve that problem quickly enough. If they slow but just aren't coming to a complete stop before continuing, who is without sin to cast that first stone? Why are red-light cameras even necessary if the motoring public is so faithful to the rules? Why is so much police time and resources devoted to keeping some kind of a lid on asocial behavior on the road? What we can't understand is why you think that just fine (given your complete lack of condemnation of 'Chicago stops' and 'right turn on red after tapping the brakes') but have a case of the vapors when cyclists bend the rules. Are YOU just arguing for the sake of arguing? Standing on the outside, you really do remind me of all the 'virtuous' people so wholly invested in the task of getting Trump supporters to admit to some flaw that Trump is perceived to have. That same dynamic is at work in the need to have cyclists admit their brethren are not perfect and is just annoying when promulgated by a motorist who can't admit that their faction is also not perfect - and if I'm reckless and run into your car on my 20 lb bicycle I might scratch your paint, if you're reckless because you want to put me in my proper place in the 'hierarchy of the road' you can certainly kill or maim me
In a more perfect world the argument about whether we 'deserve' to be given courtesy when we use the road would not even be a thing. I really think many exhibit the bully's mentality that they can **** with people on bicycles because there is an imbalance of power and they think cyclists can't do anything about it. That kind of stupidity can get people killed in more ways than one
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