Why the hate for Cyclists?

[jamil]

View attachment 341163

You can be right. And you can be dead right. Of what use is a right exercised while no longer breathing? In the tiers of responsibility, the tier-1 responsibility is on the rider for his own safety. Sometimes you just have to get the **** out of the way.

 

[printcraft]

Growing up, we played kickball, wiffle ball, track ball, dodge ball (a lot of ball play), frisbee AND we rode our BMX bikes on the street in the neighborhood.
Every kid there KNEW to call out "CAR!" when we were being approached by a vehicle.
Then we all stood in the road, refused to move, and said we have the same rights to be there that cars do!!!






















No, wait... Foggy memory... We got the **** out of the street.

 

[BugI02]

What problem of mine have I articulated here? How much nonsense are you going to project onto me in this thread?

Am I incorrect in thinking your viewpoint is that all cyclists should immediately move out of your way when you are driving upon the roads you insist on believing they pay nothing towards? I have yet to hear anyone on your side of the divide admit that in most car/bicycle interactions the car can easily get by the cyclist in a matter of moments, all I hear is that the cyclist either shouldn't be on the road at all or should move off the road to let the car by. Why is it too much trouble to use the automobile's much greater capacity to accelerate to get beyond the situation as quickly as possible with as little drama as possible?

I'm really surprised that you haven't fulminated more about pedestrians using 'your' roads more and delaying your important life, since 'pedestrians don't pay for roads, only motorists do' and you might actually have to slow down a bit for them and await an opportunity to get around them. Maybe pedestrians should have to wear license plates and be insured?

As you can see, I have no need to 'project' foolish arguments upon you, you have provided a quite adequate supply of he real thing

 

[Creedmoor]

You can be right. And you can be dead right. Of what use is a right exercised while no longer breathing? In the tiers of responsibility, the tier-1 responsibility is on the rider for his own safety. Sometimes you just have to get the **** out of the way.

Learning to sail as a kid we were constantly told, Gross Tonnage Always Wins.

 

[jamil]

This is not going to be popular with some & not trying to poke or be advesarial, just stating my personal opinion and that we will have to agree to disagree.

I do not agree with laws that entitle bicycles to be on the road without being plated & insured. All of my vehicles have to be legal to be on the road, I don't believe it should be any different for any vehicle on the road that is being used for transportation or pleasure.

I do not agree with laws that off road vehicles are required to be titled & registered, even if they never leave private property.

I do not agree that illegal aliens should be entitled to our resources.

With that said, I understand that many who ride bikes are courteous & responsible.

I'm just catching up with the thread, so possibly circumstances are different today. I think a few people have already said as much. which touched off lots of harumphs, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Roads are primarily made for motor vehicles. Road taxes pay for roads and upkeep. Cyclists are not paying for any of that. I don't mind if bicycles use roads too, though. I just disagree with the idea that bicycles and motor vesicles have exactly the same rights to the road. That seems to **** off the ardent cyclists. But they're not the same.

If roads are designed to accommodate cyclists, I'm fine with the upgrade too, but the extra cost for that should fall on cyclists, and not motorists.

As far as all off-road vehicles having to get registered and plated, I disagree that too. I don't think they should have equal rights to the roads either. My tractor uses diesel, so I use off road diesel. I'm not paying for roads, but I rarely use them. Sometimes, I need to use them. I don't view it as having an equal right with people who drive motor vehicles on the same road. If I'm driving my tractor down the road, I can't keep up with speeds motor vehicles are running. It's on me to GTFO of the way when it's safe to do so.

 

[BugI02]

Bicycle Safety

www.in.gov

The Indiana State Police reminds motorists to be on the lookout for bicyclists and pedestrians, particularly children. More people will be walking and riding their bikes to conserve fuel, for exercise, and for fun. Use caution around children playing in neighborhoods, residential areas, and schools. This time of year, children are more likely to walk and ride their bicycles to schools.

Safety Tips for Drivers:

Remember: bicycles have the same rights and responsibilities on the roads as other vehicles
Slow down in or near residential areas and playgrounds
Look for clues that indicate children may be in the area
Scan between parked cars and other objects for signs of children possibly darting out into the road
Children are impulsive; they don't stop to think about safety
Children have a difficult time judging speeds of approaching vehicles
Children are not predictable and may lack road sense around traffic
Make room when you are approaching bicyclists, be patient and wait until it's safe before passing
Give way and travel at a safe distance behind bicyclists
Take extra care at night and during wet conditions
Safety Tips for Bicyclists:

Wear a properly fitted helmet every time you ride
Check your bicycle for safety. Use the ABC quick check: Air-check your tire's air pressure, Brakes-check brakes to make sure they work, Chain-make sure it is tight and oiled
Learn and follow the rules of the road; among the most important is always ride in the same direction as traffic.
Be seen by other road users. Wear bright clothing during the day and wear reflective materials on your body or equipment at night.
Stay alert

 

[BugI02]

IC 9-21-11-2
Roadways; rights and duties
Sec. 2. A person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all the rights and duties under this article that are applicable to a person who drives a vehicle, except the following:
(1) Special regulations of this article.
(2) Those provisions of this article that by their nature have no application.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.9.

Oddly, it doesn't make any exceptions for how busy the road is thought to be or how important drivers think their personal convenience is

 

[jamil]

Part of the problem is you have unrealistic standards, and you do make excuses for your own group

I see lots of posts with 'the majority of cyclists ...' and 'most cyclists ...' used in this thread without any underlying statistics or documentation. The level of claimed interaction between the random INGO motorist and bicyclists doesn't statistically match well with the population of each. To read most of this thread is to be told that large groups of cyclists are common everywhere, riding 3 and 4 abreast and making life intolerable for all motorists everywhere when that is simply inaccurate stereotyping

But aren't you implying "most" with this paragraph? I'm not saying "most" cyclists. I say some. I've complained in this thread about large groups of cyclists who ride on my road riding 3 and 4 abreast and they have a line of several cars behind them. I don't think what I'm asking is unreasonable. Just be courteous. Those assholes aren't. But, I think it's gonna be resolved soon. New subdivisions being developed adding more and more traffic. Lots of construction vehicles whose drivers can't seem to mind their lane. I think the cycling clubs will recognize the danger and use better judgment.

Then discussion proceeds to how cyclists don't follow the laws, where absolute obedience is required of cyclists while not so much from your fellow motorists. If cyclists are just running stop signs as claimed, then darwinism will solve that problem quickly enough. If they slow but just aren't coming to a complete stop before continuing, who is without sin to cast that first stone? Why are red-light cameras even necessary if the motoring public is so faithful to the rules?

Okay. Fine. If you want things to be consistent, put a plate on your bike so the cameras can catch your bike when you run stop signs/lights.

Why is so much police time and resources devoted to keeping some kind of a lid on asocial behavior on the road? What we can't understand is why you think that just fine (given your complete lack of condemnation of 'Chicago stops' and 'right turn on red after tapping the brakes') but have a case of the vapors when cyclists bend the rules. Are YOU just arguing for the sake of arguing? Standing on the outside, you really do remind me of all the 'virtuous' people so wholly invested in the task of getting Trump supporters to admit to some flaw that Trump is perceived to have.

Wow. I didn't realize that stick was up your ass that far. You can't even admit what it's about. It's testing your objectivity. Can you see the thorns on the rose bush?

That same dynamic is at work in the need to have cyclists admit their brethren are not perfect and is just annoying when promulgated by a motorist who can't admit that their faction is also not perfect - and if I'm reckless and run into your car on my 20 lb bicycle I might scratch your paint, if you're reckless because you want to put me in my proper place in the 'hierarchy of the road' you can certainly kill or maim me

This whole thread is to ask the question, why do people hate cyclists. The overwhelming answer is made quite clear. Because enough cyclists present an air of entitlement that rubs many people the wrong way. Justifying rude behavior doesn't tend to endear one as a courteous cyclist.

In a more perfect world the argument about whether we 'deserve' to be given courtesy when we use the road would not even be a thing. I really think many exhibit the bully's mentality that they can **** with people on bicycles because there is an imbalance of power and they think cyclists can't do anything about it. That kind of stupidity can get people killed in more ways than one

In a perfect world, neither cyclists nor motorists would have a sense of entitlement that irritates the other. If I'm riding on the road, and I am extending courtesy to motorists to the extent safely possible, and the ******* driver throws a soda can at me as he speeds by, obviously that's not mutually courteous behavior.

This ain't a perfect world. ******* drivers and ******* riders make it bad for everyone. And about the ******* driver thing, like I said many pages back, this is essentially the ******* cyclist thread. You're welcome to start an ******* driver thread, and you'd find a lot of folks contributing who are contributing their experiences with ******* cyclists, also contributing their experiences with ******* motorists in that thread.

The difference would be that we won't see much defense of ******* motorists like we see defense of ******* cyclists. Now why would you suppose that might be? Because some cyclists can't admit to themselves that some cyclists are assholes?

 

[jamil]

Be seen by other road users. Wear bright clothing during the day and wear reflective materials on your body or equipment at night.

OMG. Lots of people like to ride or jog on my road. There's a jogger who looks like he's always in a bad mood. He would never wear bright clothing to make himself be seen. Always jogs in the middle of the road expecting cars to go around him. I came up on him once and I didn't see him right away. He blended in with the background. It was a close call. He can claim all he wants that he has a right to be on the road too, and in Indiana, that is true. It shouldn't be true, because motor vehicles are not the same as legs.

Regardless of is vs ought, like I said before, that guy can poke his chest out, snarl, jog in the middle of the ***damn lane. Ain't gonna serve him one bit as he takes his last breath with a Chevy bow-tie imprinted on his face.

I have seen him lately wearing reflective clothing, so maybe he's had too many close calls and has realized that he has the first-tier of responsibility for his own safety.

 

[jamil]

What should road tax on a bike be? I was pointing out that road funding is not 100% fuel and user tax, general taxpayers participate as well. How much more than that should a bicycle pay to use roads?

Road taxes on a bike? While I don't think it's necessary, I suppose it would serve grumpy cyclists an even bigger soap box from which to claim their self-entitlement.

Are you good with gun specific taxes?

You claim an equal right with motorists without having to help fund roads and maintenance. That isn't remotely like special gun taxes. Nevertheless, whatever amount the taxes would be on a bike, wouldn't amount to much at all. But, I do think if cities must install bike lanes and trails, the cyclists who want them should have to pay for them.

 

[chipbennett]

Am I incorrect in thinking your viewpoint is that all cyclists should immediately move out of your way when you are driving upon the roads you insist on believing they pay nothing towards?

Yes, you're incorrect.

Where did I ever make such an argument? At most, I've said that cyclists should follow the regulations for Slow Moving Vehicles. (And unless those regulations have changed since I was younger - and they certainly could have - they only require that the SMV yield when three or more vehicles are behind it.)

I have yet to hear anyone on your side of the divide admit that in most car/bicycle interactions the car can easily get by the cyclist in a matter of moments, all I hear is that the cyclist either shouldn't be on the road at all or should move off the road to let the car by. Why is it too much trouble to use the automobile's much greater capacity to accelerate to get beyond the situation as quickly as possible with as little drama as possible?

...still making/countering arguments I haven't made.

I'm really surprised that you haven't fulminated more about pedestrians using 'your' roads more and delaying your important life, since 'pedestrians don't pay for roads, only motorists do' and you might actually have to slow down a bit for them and await an opportunity to get around them. Maybe pedestrians should have to wear license plates and be insured?

You're only surprised by that because you keep ascribing to me arguments that I haven't made.

As you can see, I have no need to 'project' foolish arguments upon you, you have provided a quite adequate supply of he real thing

As I can see, you still haven't actually cited anything that I've actually said in this thread, making the arguments you claim that I've made. You just keep erecting and demolishing straw men.

You're welcome to quote anything I've said in this thread that represents such an argument, and then we can discuss it.

 

[jamil]

Just how is this to be accomplished? Why are individuals responsible for someone else's behavior? Does this apply to other groups?

In terms of a group controlling group behavior, can motorists hold motorists responsible for violating road etiquette? Am I responsible for my neighbors' rude driving? Prolly not a lot of difference with cyclists. Both groups have clubs and such. But there isn't really anything linking them other than possibly identity. People are individuals.

 

[jamil]

Yes. Do we not continually discuss, advocate for, and teach firearm safety? We condemn those who do stupid things and try to educate new gun owners the correct way to do things, for safety, and to ensure we are not giving a bad image to those on the fence about guns. Why would cyclists not want the same for their community?

Why would drivers not want to do that for their community?

But, if there's a community, probably cyclists would feel community more than people who drive cars.

I guess when you see an ******* on a bike, you could tell her she shouldn't be such a bad representative of cyclists. I suspect that's not gonna work for individuals who don't see themselves as part of the community of cyclists. Prolly a good thing anyway.

 

[jamil]

There are plenty of bicycle advocacy groups. You stated the cyclists should hold other cyclists accountable. I'm asking how. Talking safety isn't holding anyone accountable. Advocating for something isn't accountability.

Could do it like children. If you don't stop riding your bike like an *******, I'm not gonna be your friend no more.

 

[jamil]

I literally just explained it. Just like when members of the firearm community does something stupid how we call them out and teach them the right way to do something. If youre riding and see a cyclists run a stop sign, tell them how stupid it is and how it ruins the image for all the ones doing it correctly.

Why do cyclists always defend the actions of other cyclists or make excuses for them? This is why they receive the hate that they do. A lot of them deserve it.

And for the “but motorsists” responses… im not defending motorists breaking laws. If a motorists breaks a law i hope they receive a fine for it. Cyclists are avidly defending other cyclists breaking the law. I dont understand that.

I think that's a bit different from the firearms community. I just can't see myself telling another cyclist who doesn't stop for a stop sign that he shouldn't do that. What I would expect is to be told to **** off and mind my own business. I mean, he's an ******* to begin with, right?

 

[jamil]

Perhaps a few of these on the road, brothers rolling coal on brothers.

I want one of those.

 

[jamil]

This is why we can all hate drivers, too.
Face it; we humans suck. We point fingers of blame at everybody but ourselves for all the nasty stuff we do to each other. We blame politicians or God or both for failing to keep a tighter leash on us.
Sigh...

Yeah. There are ******* drivers, and ******* riders. Said another way, there are assholes. Some of whom ride bikes. Some of whom drive cars. Some neither, some both.

I don't advocate laws to solve it, other than, if government is gonna build bike lanes and paths, they should make the people who use them pay for them. Which is another way of saying, they shouldn't be involved building them in the first place. Cyclists won't/can't pay for them without other taxpayers' help.

 

[jamil]

Amen.
Sixty pounds ago I used to race bicycles, and often rode in big group training rides. Yes, young people can get amped up on endorphins and machismo. Young people can be just as bad as grownups...but never as dangerous.
With two square inches of 100+psi tire contact, no shocks or springs on a 20# bicycle, bikers can't cause nearly the havoc of a distracted, fast-food munching average voter road raging 2-3 tons of metal at over a mile a minute.
There's a reason drivers who hit somebody from behind are considered at fault.
Remember, the reason we have cops and laws and corrupt politicians is because we can't behave. If more of us could get our $#!+ together, our government would shrink down to a size where we wouldn't need military equipment and 'roid-enhanced cops in our streets.
We could all use a fat dose of humility, I think.

Just a reminder that this is effectively the ******* cyclist thread. Anyone member is free to start the ******* driver thread. Or even just the general ******* thread. Or, I suppose, the ******* cop thread, but that one is likely to get locked pretty quickly.

 

[jamil]

Growing up, we played kickball, wiffle ball, track ball, dodge ball (a lot of ball play), frisbee AND we rode our BMX bikes on the street in the neighborhood.
Every kid there KNEW to call out "CAR!" when we were being approached by a vehicle.
Then we all stood in the road, refused to move, and said we have the same rights to be there that cars do!!!






















No, wait... Foggy memory... We got the **** out of the street.

So you're saying you played with small balls?

 

[printcraft]

So you're saying you played with small balls?

You have to start somewhere...