Rise of remote work

[wtburnette]

Where my wife works they recently ended 100% WFH. You now have to go into the office 1-2 days a week minimum. People 50 miles and further unless they had 100% WFH contracts were told to move or pound sand.

Who can say lay off without having a layoff

Exactly what Wellpoint, er Anthem, er Elephants Health did a year or so after I started working with them (which would have made it around 2013-2014). Weird way to do a layoff if you ask me. Also, WTF? You allow WFH and you hire outside of offices or allow people to move away from offices and then you turn around and tell them to drive into an office or pound sand? Scumbags.

There are rumblings at my wife’s work that the WFH train might be running out of steam. Most managers simply can’t overcome the need to actively “manage” people. And you can’t “manage” them if they’re not close at hand.

Those are the absolute worst managers. I call them "butts in seats managers" because they can only judge workers by if they're at the desks or not. Never mind it's their job to understand actual productivity, but they like to say they're "old school" and therefore only judge a worker by time spent in their cube/at their desk. F these managers. Learn to be an actual manager who looks at things from the perspective of the actual work being done, not whether the workers are in the office, or working from home. I've been a team lead, responsible for the productivity of workers both in person and remote and I can easily do the job both ways. Then again, I also still do a small amount of the same work, along with my other duties, because I like to understand the impact of changes made to the processes and things like that so I understand the job.

In actuality, most of this trend to go back to the office has more to do with employers b!tching and moaning because they're paying for buildings that are partially empty, or using it as an excuse for layoffs. The main point honestly doesn't have much to do with remote work, it's just a convenient excuse.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Exactly what Wellpoint, er Anthem, er Elephants Health did a year or so after I started working with them (which would have made it around 2013-2014). Weird way to do a layoff if you ask me. Also, WTF? You allow WFH and you hire outside of offices or allow people to move away from offices and then you turn around and tell them to drive into an office or pound sand? Scumbags.



Those are the absolute worst managers. I call them "butts in seats managers" because they can only judge workers by if they're at the desks or not. Never mind it's their job to understand actual productivity, but they like to say they're "old school" and therefore only judge a worker by time spent in their cube/at their desk. F these managers. Learn to be an actual manager who looks at things from the perspective of the actual work being done, not whether the workers are in the office, or working from home. I've been a team lead, responsible for the productivity of workers both in person and remote and I can easily do the job both ways. Then again, I also still do a small amount of the same work, along with my other duties, because I like to understand the impact of changes made to the processes and things like that so I understand the job.

In actuality, most of this trend to go back to the office has more to do with employers b!tching and moaning because they're paying for buildings that are partially empty, or using it as an excuse for layoffs. The main point honestly doesn't have much to do with remote work, it's just a convenient excuse.

Part of it too, in my wife's case is they have a new VP over her part of the business. New leadership HAS to change the old way of doing work. They can't help themselves. Most I've seen have to change things up to make their mark or something. It doesn't even matter whether the existing methods are effective or efficient, it matters that it wasn't of their doing.

 

[wtburnette]

Part of it too, in my wife's case is they have a new VP over her part of the business. New leadership HAS to change the old way of doing work. They can't help themselves. Most I've seen have to change things up to make their mark or something. It doesn't even matter whether the existing methods are effective or efficient, it matters that it wasn't of their doing.

Yeah, executives breathe the rarified air at the top that damages their brains. That's the conclusion I've reached after 30 years of working in the corporate world.

 

[bigretic]

Managers not being able to manage and workers not being able to work... 2 sides to every coin. The reality I've seen in the past several years is that your typical rank and file clock punchers when enabled by remote work simply don't work regardless of the quality of the manager. The only difference made by the level of management is how long before they get fired for lack of performance and flippant disregard for responsibility. The remote workers i had before the craze are still here; while there has been a revolving door of new ones since the "thing"...

 

[jamil]

Managers not being able to manage and workers not being able to work... 2 sides to every coin. The reality I've seen in the past several years is that your typical rank and file clock punchers when enabled by remote work simply don't work regardless of the quality of the manager. The only difference made by the level of management is how long before they get fired for lack of performance and flippant disregard for responsibility. The remote workers i had before the craze are still here; while there has been a revolving door of new ones since the "thing"...

How well do they work in the office? I guess if you have to have someone looking over your shoulder to work, maybe you need to work in an office. Some people have a hard time with distractions at home. Some people don't. When I close my office door, I have zero distractions. And that's a lot better than in the open office where there are many distractions.

I think of it like this. Get it done. In the office or out, either you're producing or you're not. It's not like managers can't tell if an employee isn't producing. Non-performers make excuses whether they're not getting it done in the office or at home.

 

[wtburnette]

It is absolutely a thing that not everyone can effectively work remotely. Some people need to have someone looking over their shoulder and some people can't do without the social aspect. That doesn't mean that everyone does poorly working remotely. Our VP was shocked 1 year after the lockdowns when we started working remotely and it was found that our team productivity had gone up, by a lot.

 

[Dean C.]

Exactly what Wellpoint, er Anthem, er Elephants Health did a year or so after I started working with them (which would have made it around 2013-2014). Weird way to do a layoff if you ask me. Also, WTF? You allow WFH and you hire outside of offices or allow people to move away from offices and then you turn around and tell them to drive into an office or pound sand? Scumbags.

The people hired during Covid were safe, but the people that were originally hired in Indy then moved during Covid got screwed. Plus it's anthem too (I believe we have discussed this before). It was kind of amusing to me because the wife has been saying for the last few years how she liked how she could move anywhere with her job. That was in fact a lie , and I was not surpised.

My only comments on 100% WFH is it is fine if you have an already existing and cohesive team. It is much harder to train a new employee or team being 100% remote IMHO.

But I supervise a fancy steel mill so I only care about numbers myself.

 

[Leadeye]

WFH was a no go for me, everything required for me to work was at the company or at the customer.

 

[WebSnyper]

There are rumblings at my wife’s work that the WFH train might be running out of steam. Most managers simply can’t overcome the need to actively “manage” people. And you can’t “manage” them if they’re not close at hand.

It's also going to bite them as their talent pool to pull from is now much smaller (geo limited) and the wages for going rate are also then dependent on the specific geo of where they want a butt in a seat.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's also going to bite them as their talent pool to pull from is now much smaller (geo limited) and the wages for going rate are also then dependent on the specific geo of where they want a butt in a seat.

I know we had the discussion if they pull this trigger is it going to be a good time to retire. At least one other of her coworkers mentioned it too.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

There are rumblings at my wife’s work that the WFH train might be running out of steam. Most managers simply can’t overcome the need to actively “manage” people. And you can’t “manage” them if they’re not close at hand.

Maybe they should replace management then. My managers had no problem managing us.

 

[tim87tr]

I know we had the discussion if they pull this trigger is it going to be a good time to retire. At least one other of her coworkers mentioned it too.

Freedom is invaluable. I tell people to "Go For It!" if it's feasible and they won't miss it. Some people love their job and do want to continue. WFH emphasized the concept of not going into work with the realization that it could be permanent. I believe it highlighted all the often ridiculous parts of a career that have increased a lot over the last decade. Although I'd planned ahead, I like to refer to 2020 WFH as my "practice retirement". Hope it works out for your family.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Maybe they should replace management then. My managers had no problem managing us.

Oh I think they're wanting to.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Freedom is invaluable. I tell people to "Go For It!" if it's feasible and they won't miss it. Some people love their job and do want to continue. WFH emphasized the concept of not going into work with the realization that it could be permanent. I believe it highlighted all the often ridiculous parts of a career that have increased a lot over the last decade. Although I'd planned ahead, I like to refer to 2020 WFH as my "practice retirement". Hope it works out for your family.

She likes the additional spending money. And she does like her job.

 

[gregkl]

I started a new job that is remote but being new, for this past month, I have gone into the office every day, even though I commute from Bloomington to Indy, 120 miles round trip.

It is important to me to build internal relationships…and quickly. In-person is the best way to do so. Beginning this month I’ll start working more remote but will still come in for certain meetings (though I could easily use Teams) and on Fridays I’ll go up to have a beer with folks. That’s where the relationships really cement.

I worked a good part of my career remotely and didn’t have much of a relationship with the folks at corporate, but we still got things done and over years I did build some closeness.

But now, I can’t imagine me not spending FTF time with my colleagues. We all work together, no one is an island and being in sales, we are already somewhat of an outlier in the grand scheme.

I love that I have a new gig that allows me to get back on the road seeing customers with, ultimately, periodic visits to the office. Best situation I could have!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I started a new job that is remote but being new, for this past month, I have gone into the office every day, even though I commute from Bloomington to Indy, 120 miles round trip.

It is important to me to build internal relationships…and quickly. In-person is the best way to do so. Beginning this month I’ll start working more remote but will still come in for certain meetings (though I could easily use Teams) and on Fridays I’ll go up to have a beer with folks. That’s where the relationships really cement.

I worked a good part of my career remotely and didn’t have much of a relationship with the folks at corporate, but we still got things done and over years I did build some closeness.

But now, I can’t imagine me not spending FTF time with my colleagues. We all work together, no one is an island and being in sales, we are already somewhat of an outlier in the grand scheme.

I love that I have a new gig that allows me to get back on the road seeing customers with, ultimately, periodic visits to the office. Best situation I could have!

In my case, yeah, people are talking to each other face to face when we're in the office, but most of that talking is not work related, so for me, it's a waste of time and a distraction from doing actual work.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I started a new job that is remote but being new, for this past month, I have gone into the office every day, even though I commute from Bloomington to Indy, 120 miles round trip.

It is important to me to build internal relationships…and quickly. In-person is the best way to do so. Beginning this month I’ll start working more remote but will still come in for certain meetings (though I could easily use Teams) and on Fridays I’ll go up to have a beer with folks. That’s where the relationships really cement.

I worked a good part of my career remotely and didn’t have much of a relationship with the folks at corporate, but we still got things done and over years I did build some closeness.

But now, I can’t imagine me not spending FTF time with my colleagues. We all work together, no one is an island and being in sales, we are already somewhat of an outlier in the grand scheme.

I love that I have a new gig that allows me to get back on the road seeing customers with, ultimately, periodic visits to the office. Best situation I could have!

I hear ya. During the pandemic I was working from home 4 days a week because I still have things I need to touch. So I would schedule all the physical touching for Fridays. Sometimes I'd have to go in when something broke, but it worked well.

Now I'd love working 2 or 3 days a week from home. I enjoy not driving across town when I dont need to, but I also dont like the isolation of not working physically with my team.

 

[Cameramonkey]

In my case, yeah, people are talking to each other face to face when we're in the office, but most of that talking is not work related, so for me, it's a waste of time and a distraction from doing actual work.

You say that like its a bad thing? LOL

 

[Twangbanger]

Exactly what Wellpoint, er Anthem, er Elephants Health did a year or so after I started working with them (which would have made it around 2013-2014). Weird way to do a layoff if you ask me. Also, WTF? You allow WFH and you hire outside of offices or allow people to move away from offices and then you turn around and tell them to drive into an office or pound sand? Scumbags.



Those are the absolute worst managers. I call them "butts in seats managers" because they can only judge workers by if they're at the desks or not. Never mind it's their job to understand actual productivity, but they like to say they're "old school" and therefore only judge a worker by time spent in their cube/at their desk. F these managers. Learn to be an actual manager who looks at things from the perspective of the actual work being done, not whether the workers are in the office, or working from home. I've been a team lead, responsible for the productivity of workers both in person and remote and I can easily do the job both ways. Then again, I also still do a small amount of the same work, along with my other duties, because I like to understand the impact of changes made to the processes and things like that so I understand the job.

In actuality, most of this trend to go back to the office has more to do with employers b!tching and moaning because they're paying for buildings that are partially empty, or using it as an excuse for layoffs. The main point honestly doesn't have much to do with remote work, it's just a convenient excuse.

The "layoffs" are a feature, not a bug. If you can convince people to voluntarily leave, it eliminates severance.

I also think the A-holes simultaneously working 2 jobs from home, but not able to keep their yaps shut about it, added urgency to companies forcing butts back in seats.

 

[wtburnette]

The "layoffs" are a feature, not a bug. If you can convince people to voluntarily leave, it eliminates severance.

I also think the A-holes simultaneously working 2 jobs from home, but not able to keep their yaps shut about it, added urgency to companies forcing butts back in seats.

I don't disagree. Seems weird for a layoff done that way though, as it doesn't necessarily lay off the lowest performers. You would think that if a company needed to downsize, they would get rid of the non-productive workers and keep the top performers. Laying off via bringing people back to the office doesn't necessarily do that.