Why all the hate on .40

[Trapper Jim]

Caliber makes no difference if the sound of gunfire is all you’re after.

Shooting Skill Set is less dependent on caliber and the false sense of security can be common in all calibers.

Enjoy all the Industry Options available to you today and learn it, live it and love it till you excel at your best skill set.

See you on the range

Trapper

 

[NyleRN]

All my handguns were in .40 up until ~9yrs ago. (Except for a couple in 45). No 9mm at all. I decided that I wanted to change over due the cheaper cost of ammo and the fact that most new guns to the market come out in 9mm first. Plus the more I read about facts and logic as BBI points out I soon realized that 9mm is just as sufficient and it's on me to make the stop with proficient hits regardless of service caliber size. I like the lower recoil and added capacity of a 9mm handgun. Faster more accurate shots on target is good thing when you need to stop someone from doing serious bodily harm or death.

 

[ECS686]

The feds have 3 options on their contract last I looked, which has been a bit. Critical Duty was one of them. I think the multiple options was more about having more than one supplier in the logisitics chain so no single point of failure vs any significant difference among them, as they all met the standards set.

I'm speculating on the motive, though, and I don't have anyone I can ask any longer. Retirement and death has pared my contacts back a bit.

When I retired in 2020 from BOP there were 2 approved 9mm Duty rounds. both Federal. The used forever 115 gr 9BP Standard pressure (not the plus P Plus) and standard pressure 124 HST.

US Marshals who we worked closely with last I knew were going to 135 plus P critical Duty. John Hearne mentioned to me the National Park Service was running 147 HST for 9mm but still authorized 45 not sure about that one.

But as BBI mentioned there’s always a couple approved loads so a given day or year might find a different load.

 

[Sigblitz]

^^THIS^^

40 is hard on most guns because most are simply 9mm they out 40 barrels on. Why the S&W won the CHP trials and Glock added a 3rd pin. With the exception of the S&W 4006 which is steel the ones made specifically for 40 (Sig 229, HK USP and later the M&P 40) all were made for the 40 and the additional pressure.

The 2nd 3rd and 4th Gen Glocks are on AS LONG as you replace your recoil springs the Gem 5 Glock 22 and 23 has a wider and heavier slide still change your springs but it should be a little more forgiving.

I forgot about the 3rd pin. I have a 3 pin but there's early 2 pins.

 

[Firehawk]

.40 S&W is the Chevy Avalanche of hand gun cartridges.

 

[ECS686]

I forgot about the 3rd pin. I have a 3 pin but there's early 2 pins.

If you knew disregard but for those that did not. When S&W unveils the 40 at 1990 Glock was doing the Model 20 “Perfect 10” Glock supposedly obtaind some 40 ammo and beat S&W to market with the 22/23

CHP just happened to want to go to an auto and had trials. I know the S&W won because they had a lot of issues with durability and the initial model 22/23 Glocks with 1 pin by the trigger didn’t make it through the test.

So the Gen 2 40 cal from that point on had the 3rd pin (2 above the trigger pin and locking block vs 1 on other calibers however they started adding 3 pins to the 9mm as well on Gen 3 and 4 until the Gen 5 came out and also went back to
2 pins on the 9mm models)

Fast forward the Gen 5 40 Glocks went back to 2 pins (1 trigger/block combo 1 on the backstrap)
I was curious how they did it then being somewhat a nerd dived into the specks. The 9mm and Gen 2-4 40 cal Glocks have a slide width of 1.0” the Gen 5 40 Glocks have. A slide width if 1.08 same size as the 45 Gap models (Glock 20/21 have a 1.12” wide slide

So the new Gen 5 40 cals have a wider and slightly heavier slide. Haven’t shot the Gen 5 40 to see if there’s noticeable difference

But because if the slide difference the Gen 5 40 need a different holster than years past

The Glock 21 in 45 was built on the 20 the slide width was made for 10mm the Glock 41 “tactical practical” 45 has the smaller 1.00 “ slide diameter as they didn’t need the extra width.

The Model 40 10mm as well as the Gen 5 20/21 Glock retained the 1.12” slide width of the original Glock20/21

There might be some. Differences I overlooked but that’s just a generalization

 

[mcapo]

.40 S&W is the Chevy Avalanche of hand gun cartridges.

Whoa….easy there buddy. My Avalanches were some of my favorite vehicles. Should have kept my last one…

Colorado = 380acp

Silverado = 9mm

Silverado 2500 = 45acp

Avalanche = 357sig

Toyota Tacoma = 40SW

Chevy SS 454 circa 1993 = 10mm

CyberTruck = 45gap

 

[Firehawk]

Whoa….easy there buddy. My Avalanches were some of my favorite vehicles. Should have kept my last one…

Colorado = 380acp

Silverado = 9mm

Silverado 2500 = 45acp

Avalanche = 357sig

I’ve got nothing against the Avalanche, or the .40. I wouldn’t mind driving one if it was a great deal. But I see a similarity between the two and how the market responded. They both check a lot of boxes but aren’t really the best at anything. A lot of people don’t like the compromise that .40 brings and would rather just go 9mm for capacity or 45 or 10mm for power. A lot of people didn’t like the compromise that the Avalanche brought and just would’ve rather had a Tahoe or a full size pick up.

Having said that you have some cool guns in .40 S&W. And I very much enjoy my .40 Tanfoglio. I think you probably have some cool guns in just about every caliber lol!

I’d compare the 357 Sig to a Trans Am, Camaro or Corvette. Small with a ton of power! Truly a “hot rod” of a cartridge.

 

[BE Mike]

Simply put, the younger crop of gun owners were brainwashed that the 9mm is the only cartridge to consider. The police went to the 9mm because their officers couldn't handle the recoil of the .40 S&W. None of these folks grew up shooting magnum ammo, nor even .45 ACP. When faced with something that the younger folks can't handle, instead of trying harder they throw shade.

 

[T-DOGG]

I've solved a lot of problems with my .40. I'd be dead on the streets without it.

'Nuff said.

 

[Pepi]

I don't hate them but if SHTF this ammo maybe hard to find

 

[armalitesheepdog]

But.....will .40 kill a burgler dead?
A rapist? A home invader?
Well yes. Yes it will. So if you need a good quality gun and your funds are limited then... A .40 would be a great deal to arm someone that needs armed but is not wealthy.
There is no need to conform.

 

[Route 45]

The police went to the 9mm because their officers couldn't handle the recoil of the .40 S&W.

Not exactly. The police went back to 9mm because the FBI said it was cool again, and the boolits are cheaper. It is generally easier to shoot well in light polymer frame guns, but as usual, logistics and cost have more to do with it.

 

[88E30M50]

My question isn't why all the hate for .40 but why not more love for 357 sig....

I'll second this! .357 Sig is like 9mm Magnum. Given the love for 10mm, you'd think that .357 Sig would be more popular. It's like 9mm that goes to 11 on the volume dial.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

Ugh, another needlessly controversial gun subject. I'm pleased to see most responding with humility with the "different strokes for different folks attitude". I have and carry a .40 because it's what I shoot better than any of my other handguns, including my 9mm's. It's understood why 9mm has become so popular, but just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean I have to do it.

The other stupid argument is the "40 short and wimpy" argument. Yes .40 S&W is weaker than 10mm, but I'm not hiking in the Klondike. I haven't chrono graphed my bullets, but typically a standard 115 gr .40 will have somewhat more velocity and kinetic energy than both standard 115 gr 9mm and a 230 gr. 45 ACP, and will likely have better terminal ballistics than the same 9mm. Now that's splitting hairs in a self defense scenario against your local crackhead, but .40 is technically the most powerful of the three when judging in certain circumstances and outside of over pressured rounds. Ridiculing someone for using "40 short and wimpy" is like ridiculing someone for using 45 ACP over 45 Colt, or 9x19 over 9x21 or .357 Sig.

 

[BE Mike]

But.....will .40 kill a burgler dead?
A rapist? A home invader?
Well yes. Yes it will. So if you need a good quality gun and your funds are limited then... A .40 would be a great deal to arm someone that needs armed but is not wealthy.
There is no need to conform.

Why would anyone want to kill a bugler? Oh, never mind!

 

[armalitesheepdog]

Why would anyone want to kill a bugler? Oh, never mind!

Burglar . My spelling sucks my math is worse but...life is good.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

...typically a standard 115 gr .40 will have somewhat more velocity and kinetic energy than both standard 115 gr 9mm and a 230 gr. 45 ACP, and will likely have better terminal ballistics than the same 9mm.

No. The super light weight/high velocity rounds make impressive energy numbers for marketing but are not better performers. Simply put, they make messy but shallow wounds. I've detailed the whys of it before, won't rehash it.

165 gr and 180gr .40S&W, 124 or 147gr 9mm.

 

[VERT]

I don't hate them but if SHTF this ammo maybe hard to find

Actually if SHTF .40 S&W might be the only thing left on the shelf. We have been through not one but two ammo panic buying scenarios since 2012. .380 auto and .38 spl were the first to dry up. Then 9mm and .45 ACP. Magnum revolver cartridges were never in big supply to begin with.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

No. The super light weight/high velocity rounds make impressive energy numbers for marketing but are not better performers. Simply put, they make messy but shallow wounds. I've detailed the whys of it before, won't rehash it.

165 gr and 180gr .40S&W, 124 or 147gr 9mm.

Ok, I'll re-phrase. A 165 gr .40 will give slightly better terminal ballistics than a 124 gr. 9mm. Most likely not enough to make a difference, however my objective with that paragraph was to challenge the "short and wimpy" argument by attempting to make a direct comparison. I acknowledge I haven't seen as much people with holes as you have, so all have is the rough ballistics.