Why all the hate on .40

[92FSTech]

I don't hate it, but I do hate that my 9mm brass nests inside of it in the tumbler and gets jammed in there with loose media.

As a cartridge it works fine, it just doesn't do anything that 9mm doesn't do with more capacity and for less money. I started my career carrying a P229 in .40. Great gun. I still have it and still like it. It just doesn't get shot as much as the 9mm stuff these days.

 

[Route 45]

Just say no, to 40 Short and Wimpy.

Virtually every law enforcement department has!

Just like the FBI did with 10mm.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Just like the 45GAP. The answer to a question that was never was never asked. Watered down the 10mm because it was too much for a lot of shooters to handle but, they had too much money invested just to let it die.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Just like the FBI did with 10mm.

It was too much for the wimpy agents to handle.

 

[Route 45]

It was too much for the wimpy agents to handle.

Like I said earlier, it ain't about the caliber.

 

[DadSmith]

Yes 9mm is better nowadays with improved HP like the HST.
However, they have HST in 40 Short & Weak, 45acp, 10mm etc etc. All these calibers will make a bigger hole with the same HST HP design.
If a person can handle the recoil go big.

A 10mm loaded full power using the same HST HP will expand faster and dump more energy, than a 40 Short & Weak using a HST.

Where 10mm shines is 200gr FN or WFNGC hard cast bullets. They have way more penetration than the 40 S&W or 9mm.

10mm is IMO more versatile than the 40S&W.
You can buy 40S&W powered loads or full power 10mm loads. You can also load 10mm to what you want as well. 40S&W is not that versatile.

That said I do have 1k nickel plated 40S&W brass. I'm waiting on a M&P 2.0 40S&W LEO trade in for around $250.

 

[DadSmith]

It was too much for the wimpy agents to handle.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes 9mm is better nowadays with improved HP like the HST.
However, they have HST in 40 Short & Weak, 45acp, 10mm etc etc. All these calibers will make a bigger hole with the same HST HP design.
If a person can handle the recoil go big.

A 10mm loaded full power using the same HST HP will expand faster and dump more energy, than a 40 Short & Weak using a HST.

Where 10mm shines is 200gr FN or WFNGC hard cast bullets. They have way more penetration than the 40 S&W or 9mm.

10mm is IMO more versatile than the 40S&W.
You can buy 40S&W powered loads or full power 10mm loads. You can also load 10mm to what you want as well. 40S&W is not that versatile.

That said I do have 1k nickel plated 40S&W brass. I'm waiting on a M&P 2.0 40S&W LEO trade in for around $250.

Bigger hole, maybe. In our testing 9mm expanded *more* than .40 through some intermediate barriers, .40 expanded more through others. You can find the HST chart online from the manufacturer. Note glass testing, 9mm reliably expands more. Heavy clothing, I think .40 was the winnter. Steel almost always goes to the bullet that started the biggest because the petals either don't expand or sheer off on traditional HPs. Even if you don't think you'll ever need to punch through glass, that test matters as it's a great indicator of bone strike performance as well. .45 Auto doesn't get much more interesting until +P loads and duty sized barrels. That said, none of it is different enough to amount to a hair in a bear's ass. Once you get to the point you can break adult bone and keep going deep enough to disrupt gibbly bits, quite literally nothing matters except putting the bullet in those gibbly bits as far as a physical stop. Being concerned about .03" is as relevant in a gunfight as .03 seconds of split time.

Energy dump remains not a thing in handgun cartridges in the vast majority of human tissue. If you hit someone in their full bladder, you may very well get some remote wounding, but through the chest muscles and lungs and heart? No. It's why we see zero differences in fatal outcomes over large numbers of shootings by the same departments after transition from any of common duty calibers to any of the others using quality jacketed hollowpoints. All end up being samey-samey because...gibbly bit disruption. My personal benchmark is simple:

No argument on penetration. If you're trying to do something that requires more than 18" of penetration then you're probably not looking for a common duty caliber any longer. Were I not a reloader and having .45 Colt and .44 Magnum available, 10mm would likely make more sense to me. As is, it's just another option I've got covered better by other things.

 

[DadSmith]

Bigger hole, maybe. In our testing 9mm expanded *more* than .40 through some intermediate barriers, .40 expanded more through others. You can find the HST chart online from the manufacturer. Note glass testing, 9mm reliably expands more. Heavy clothing, I think .40 was the winnter. Steel almost always goes to the bullet that started the biggest because the petals either don't expand or sheer off on traditional HPs. Even if you don't think you'll ever need to punch through glass, that test matters as it's a great indicator of bone strike performance as well. .45 Auto doesn't get much more interesting until +P loads and duty sized barrels. That said, none of it is different enough to amount to a hair in a bear's ass. Once you get to the point you can break adult bone and keep going deep enough to disrupt gibbly bits, quite literally nothing matters except putting the bullet in those gibbly bits as far as a physical stop. Being concerned about .03" is as relevant in a gunfight as .03 seconds of split time.

Energy dump remains not a thing in handgun cartridges in the vast majority of human tissue. If you hit someone in their full bladder, you may very well get some remote wounding, but through the chest muscles and lungs and heart? No. It's why we see zero differences in fatal outcomes over large numbers of shootings by the same departments after transition from any of common duty calibers to any of the others using quality jacketed hollowpoints. All end up being samey-samey because...gibbly bit disruption. My personal benchmark is simple:

No argument on penetration. If you're trying to do something that requires more than 18" of penetration then you're probably not looking for a common duty caliber any longer. Were I not a reloader and having .45 Colt and .44 Magnum available, 10mm would likely make more sense to me. As is, it's just another option I've got covered better by other things.

Is this why the Feds went with Hornady Critical Duty?

 

[Bluedragon]

I personally have nothing against 40sw and own a couple myself to add variety to my handgun collection.

I believe most people dislike shooting it as others have stated from firing guns designed to fire 9mm retrofitted for 40sw like the Glock 22 is why the recoil is harsh to most or at least unpleasant.

Guns designed to fire 40sw like my P229 or USP feels no worse than 124 9mm imo. My 4006 to me feels pretty much just like you're shooting 9mm 115 grain with it's hefty all stainless steel construction.

Guns capable of switching between 9mm, 40sw, and 357 sig like the P229 can't be denied as cool too.

 

[ECS686]

I personally have nothing against 40sw and own a couple myself to add variety to my handgun collection.

I believe most people dislike shooting it as others have stated from firing guns designed to fire 9mm retrofitted for 40sw like the Glock 22 is why the recoil is harsh to most or at least unpleasant.

Guns designed to fire 40sw like my P229 or USP feels no worse than 124 9mm imo. My 4006 to me feels pretty much just like you're shooting 9mm 115 grain with it's hefty all stainless steel construction.

Guns capable of switching between 9mm, 40sw, and 357 sig like the P229 can't be denied as cool too.

^^THIS^^

40 is hard on most guns because most are simply 9mm they out 40 barrels on. Why the S&W won the CHP trials and Glock added a 3rd pin. With the exception of the S&W 4006 which is steel the ones made specifically for 40 (Sig 229, HK USP and later the M&P 40) all were made for the 40 and the additional pressure.

The 2nd 3rd and 4th Gen Glocks are on AS LONG as you replace your recoil springs the Gem 5 Glock 22 and 23 has a wider and heavier slide still change your springs but it should be a little more forgiving.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is this why the Feds went with Hornady Critical Duty?

The feds have 3 options on their contract last I looked, which has been a bit. Critical Duty was one of them. I think the multiple options was more about having more than one supplier in the logisitics chain so no single point of failure vs any significant difference among them, as they all met the standards set.

I'm speculating on the motive, though, and I don't have anyone I can ask any longer. Retirement and death has pared my contacts back a bit.

 

[DadSmith]

The feds have 3 options on their contract last I looked, which has been a bit. Critical Duty was one of them. I think the multiple options was more about having more than one supplier in the logisitics chain so no single point of failure vs any significant difference among them, as they all met the standards set.

I'm speculating on the motive, though, and I don't have anyone I can ask any longer. Retirement and death has pared my contacts back a bit.

I don't think I'll ever be in a situation where I'm shooting car windshields. Or are there self defense cases where this has happened that you know of.
I associate shooting windshields to that of law enforcement only performing their duty.
Maybe if sitting in my car and I'm attacked and have to shoot through the windshield. How often does that happen outside of law enforcement?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't think I'll ever be in a situation where I'm shooting car windshields. Or are there self defense cases where this has happened that you know of.
I associate shooting windshields to that of law enforcement only performing their duty.
Maybe if sitting in my car and I'm attacked and have to shoot through the windshield. How often does that happen outside of law enforcement?

Practically never. But forearms or upper arms from the side? More than never.

Even if you don't think you'll ever need to punch through glass, that test matters as it's a great indicator of bone strike performance as well.

 

[Squid556]

Man this has been a fun thread. Lotta good points made. Wore me out from liking so many posts


I like my G22 because it was cheap, easily and reliably runs cheap 9mm. Then can go back to 40 when I'm out hunting and want 500 ft/lb of Winchester silvertip on tap.



One minor advantage that gets overlooked about 40 is that it was designed to fit in smaller frame guns. As a medium / small handed guy, 40 feels good in the hand but a 10 seems almost too big. I understand that's not the case with everyone but for us shorties its nice.

Couple things I think came into play was the explosion of sub compacts, which hurt the 40 because the 40 kinda hurts in tiny guns.

And Fbi switching back to 9mm

I still like it and will keep at least a minor amount around albeit CC with 9 and 380.

 

[Nazgul]

Initially I did not think much of the 40, a good friend had one. When we went shooting it was very inaccurate and I assumed it was the round. Turns out he couldn't hit s**t with that gun. When I tried it it was fine.........

Don

 

[mcapo]

 

[NHT3]

Now do .45 GAP.

You know I'm fond of PSA Daggers and it's the only way to have a 45 Dagger..

 

[VERT]

There was once a thread asking what was a good self defense handgun for under $400. Well you have your answer and that is a $260 police trade in Glock 22. I actually paid $299 for one a couple of months ago with a fresh looking set of night sights and 1 new magazine. That leaves $100 for more magazines and maybe even a holster.

Enjoy your For-Tay. It will serve you well and if nothing else will be handy to have around just in case you need another handgun for some reason.

 

[tcecil88]

I sold off all my .40's years ago for 9mm. I do have a hankering to get in on AIM Surplus's G22 Gen 4 police trade-in's just to have a pistol in a caliber that might be easier to find in an ammo shortage. Good handgun @ $270 to put back for a rainy day is hard to beat IMHO.
https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-4-40sw-handgun