Official 2024 POTUS Election Thread

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  • BugI02

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    Will Trump attack him from the left or right on immigration? No one could get to the right of him in his first campaign.
    My feeling is that Trump would concentrate on stopping the flow at the border and limiting access to federal aid programs for those already here and allow state governments to determine how to deal with the ones they already have

    To get out of a hole, first stop digging
     

    BugI02

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    Do you think that his stance on illegal immigration and the border doesn't cater to national voters which he needs to do? Seems to me that it would carry some weight nationally.
    I'm saying that his popularity may be eroding in the supposed heart of his electoral strength, arguably because he is losing sight of what his current voters want while courting votes elsewhere and that might not so play well at home
     

    jamil

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    So, then, where to go from there if you REALLY want to stop the destruction of the country? Work to get as many people behind Trump who aren't there yet because we'll need the numbers not only to win but to scare the establishment wing into getting out of the way of America First? Or cling to the idea (that you just torpedoed) that somehow someone else will be the Republican candidate and do what you can to depress turnout even after the point of no return because you don't like him?

    Smart money says B. The groundwork is already laid to blame Trump for the next loss. Either he is the candidate but loses because the electorate has been purposely divided by the same 'conservative' elements that refused to support him/worked against him in 2015-16 or he isn't the candidate and the same enthusiasm gap causes 'the next Trump' to lose but Trump is still blamed for it as if it doesn't take two sides to create a divide

    I'm afraid the people who are still doing just fine and just want the culture wars to go away won't be able to throw off their delusions until their Instacart and Doordash drivers are already in the re-education camps and their only option is to don their rainbow Star of David and get in the boxcars too
    If it’s Trump, he will likely fail. He’s not the right guy for the job. He can’t work with congress. He couldn’t the first time around even when he had both houses. Id vote for him if there’s no one better. Just to stop the country sliding further for 4 more years. But I don’t expect permanent progress. We didn’t get it the first time. So if DeSantis turns out to be a schmuck, it’s Trump. But it’s also then hold the line instead of advancing it.
     

    BugI02

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    If it’s Trump, he will likely fail. He’s not the right guy for the job. He can’t work with congress. He couldn’t the first time around even when he had both houses. Id vote for him if there’s no one better. Just to stop the country sliding further for 4 more years. But I don’t expect permanent progress. We didn’t get it the first time. So if DeSantis turns out to be a schmuck, it’s Trump. But it’s also then hold the line instead of advancing it.
    "Well, there’s a lot of ‘em. And some of them have all but promised to sit the election out if Trump isn’t nominated. I strongly suspect Trump will win the nomination if he’s not in jail. Well hell. Even if he is in jail."

    Just a reminder, this was you way back in #287 admitting that you think the nominee will be Trump

    Your response to that is more of the same - drag your feet, withhold your support, discourage others and then bitch when you don't get what you want

    Understood, the Manus Lavus Party is alive and well
     

    jamil

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    "Well, there’s a lot of ‘em. And some of them have all but promised to sit the election out if Trump isn’t nominated. I strongly suspect Trump will win the nomination if he’s not in jail. Well hell. Even if he is in jail."

    Just a reminder, this was you way back in #287 admitting that you think the nominee will be Trump

    Your response to that is more of the same - drag your feet, withhold your support, discourage others and then bitch when you don't get what you want

    Understood, the Manus Lavus Party is alive and well
    I also think the Democrat nominee will win in the general election. Your logic suggests I should just throw my support behind who I think will win. If DeSantis turns out not to be a schmuck, I’d rather he won. And if that’s the case, I’ll vote for him. But I suspect Trump will win. Is that clearer?
     

    BugI02

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    Not really. If you think Trump will be the nominee but needs a lot of help in the general - and you don't want a Democrat to win - why wouldn't it make sense to do everything you can to support the eventual nominee a little sooner - like now

    I have no doubt if the situation was reversed and Desantis had a lock on it you would be haranguing us to get on board your train

    Oh! That's right. You don't like him :ugh:

    That explains everything!
     

    jamil

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    Not really. If you think Trump will be the nominee but needs a lot of help in the general - and you don't want a Democrat to win - why wouldn't it make sense to do everything you can to support the eventual nominee a little sooner - like now
    I dunno. I guess I can only suspect it's that OSU education. I knew that Libertarian guy...don't remember his name...was not going to win in the Governor's primary against Holcomb. It was a long shot. I voted for the guy anyway. Why would I vote for someone I think is wrong for the country unless the only other choice is someone wronger?

    I have no doubt if the situation was reversed and Desantis had a lock on it you would be haranguing us to get on board your train
    I haven't been trying to convince you to vote for DeSantis. Even before when polls were looking more favorable for DeSantis. Why do you think that would change? I'm not interested in converting you. I'm NOT interested in teams or trains or whatever. You make stupid arguments like the above, I'll push back.

    Oh! That's right. You don't like him :ugh:

    That explains everything!

    Well. Maybe to an OSU guy.

    You think I don't want to vote for Trump because I don't like him? Dude, I don't like any politicians. This is another pile of straw yer fluffing. I do not think Trump is equipped for the job. I think overall, Trump is a net bad for the country.

    So back to your idiotic argument. Why SHOULD I vote for the person I think will win instead of the person I would rather win? You certainly wouldn't. If it looked--EVEN TO YOU--like Trump was not going to win, you would vote for him anyway. And you know it. I know it. INGO knows it.

    Now, granted, I don't adore DeSantis. So I don't have quite the same dynamic driving me away from Trump as you have driving you towards him. But still, even if you didn't have the fiercely loyal devotion, you know you would vote for Trump. Because you DO think he's best for the country. And fair enough. We all get to have our opinions about these things. You just don't like those opinions expressed when you're around. But if you cut out all the **** talk, that's the real disagreement between us. You think Trump is the best for the country. And I don't think he's the right guy for the job.
     

    KG1

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    So back to your idiotic argument. Why SHOULD I vote for the person I think will win instead of the person I would rather win? You certainly wouldn't. If it looked--EVEN TO YOU--like Trump was not going to win, you would vote for him anyway. And you know it. I know it. INGO knows it.
    I think you've touched on something here. Isn't it always said that the primary is the proper place to choose for change?

    Now if there are two candidates that are on the list for me to choose from whom I think both are capable and have shown the propensity and the willingness to take it hard to the corrosive Democrat opposition policies and the corruption of the system that is afoot at their beckoning but I prefer one over the other then why should I not support that choice and try to make the case as to why I would have confidence in that preferred candidate as well as the other and vote for them in the primary even though they may not win?

    If they should happen not to win then it's on to the general to support and vote for number two on the list. Seems to me it's the proper progression if there are two choices but you prefer one over the other.
     
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    BugI02

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    I dunno. I guess I can only suspect it's that OSU education. I knew that Libertarian guy...don't remember his name...was not going to win in the Governor's primary against Holcomb. It was a long shot. I voted for the guy anyway. Why would I vote for someone I think is wrong for the country unless the only other choice is someone wronger?


    I haven't been trying to convince you to vote for DeSantis. Even before when polls were looking more favorable for DeSantis. Why do you think that would change? I'm not interested in converting you. I'm NOT interested in teams or trains or whatever. You make stupid arguments like the above, I'll push back.



    Well. Maybe to an OSU guy.

    You think I don't want to vote for Trump because I don't like him? Dude, I don't like any politicians. This is another pile of straw yer fluffing. I do not think Trump is equipped for the job. I think overall, Trump is a net bad for the country.

    So back to your idiotic argument. Why SHOULD I vote for the person I think will win instead of the person I would rather win? You certainly wouldn't. If it looked--EVEN TO YOU--like Trump was not going to win, you would vote for him anyway. And you know it. I know it. INGO knows it.
    Now, granted, I don't adore DeSantis. So I don't have quite the same dynamic driving me away from Trump as you have driving you towards him. But still, even if you didn't have the fiercely loyal devotion, you know you would vote for Trump. Because you DO think he's best for the country. And fair enough. We all get to have our opinions about these things. You just don't like those opinions expressed when you're around. But if you cut out all the **** talk, that's the real disagreement between us. You think Trump is the best for the country. And I don't think he's the right guy for the job.
    What was that you were saying about reading for comprehension and being anxious to get your digs in? Maybe you should try that reading comprehension thing on the first part of my post you quoted. If you pay attention you'll see I'm talking about the general

    Maybe you're having trouble seeing teal, I'll see if I can help


    Not really. If you think Trump will be the nominee but needs a lot of help in the general - and you don't want a Democrat to win - why wouldn't it make sense to do everything you can to support the eventual nominee a little sooner - like now

    You could still make your protest vote for DeWalker in the primary
     

    jamil

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    I think you've touched on something here. Isn't it always said that the primary is the proper place to choose for change?
    Well. That's what was said BT. But AT, not so much.

    Now if there are two candidates that are on the list for me to choose from whom I think both are capable of taking it hard to the Democrat opposition, and the corruption of the system that is afoot at their beckoning but I prefer one over the other then why should I not support that choice and try to make the case as to why I would have confidence in that preferred candidate and vote for them in the primary even though they may not win?

    If they should happen not to win then it's on to general to support and vote for number two on the list. Seems to me it's the proper progression if there are two choices but you prefer one over the other.

    Bug knows his argument is idiotic. He would choose Trump even if he thought Trump might lose, because that's who he wants to win. That's his choice. He doesn't have any problem understanding that when it's him.
     
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    jamil

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    What was that you were saying about reading for comprehension and being anxious to get your digs in? Maybe you should try that reading comprehension thing on the first part of my post you quoted. If you pay attention you'll see I'm talking about the general
    Sigh. I did not get the context wrong. After reading, I see where I said "vote" but I meant to say "support". There's nothing in my reply that does not respect the context of your post. But, you apparently got your own context wrong. You were talking about both the general and the primary. You said, "now". Which is retarded of course. I would not expect you to change your thinking this early in for any reason.

    Nothing you've said here makes your argument any less idiotic. No. I'm not going to throw my support behind who I think will win. In the primary I'll vote for who I think is best equipped to deal with the nation's problems. In the general, I'll do the same thing. Either way, it's not gonna be a Democrat.

    Maybe you're having trouble seeing teal, I'll see if I can help
    I see it just fine. On the old site it was a problem when reading it in the dialog when I quoted it, because the contrast wasn't very good. New site, no problem.

    You could still make your protest vote for DeWalker in the primary
    Who is DeWalker? Is he better than Trump too?
     
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    KG1

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    Well. That's what was said BT. But AT, not so much.
    I'm saying all the jockeying and heated debates and actual voting for individual preferred choices should be decided in the primary and the general is the place for sucking it up and putting all that behind and coalescing around the party nominee against the opposition even though they may not be your preferred choice.

    To be clear I don't agree with the "anybody but" that nominee contingence. That is their choice and it doesn't affect my decision.
     
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    jamil

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    I'm saying all the jockeying and actually voting for individual preferred choices should be decided in the primary and the general is the place for putting all that behind and coalescing around the party nominee even though they may not be your preferred choice.

    To be clear I don't agree with the "anybody but" contingence. That is their choice and doesn't affect my decision.
    I don't agree with the "anybody but" ether, and I agree, the choice for who you want to run in the general election is decided in the primaries. But in the general election, people need to come together. I know a lot of people here are saying they want the knock-down drag out fight, but in my experience, that does not promote the coming together part in the general election.

    I was just making the point that before Trump (BT) people widely agreed what we're saying. AT, not so much.
     
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    KG1

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    I don't agree with the "anybody but" ether, and I agree, the choice for who you want to run in the general election is decided in the primaries. But in the general election, people need to come together. I know a lot of people here are saying they want the knock-down drag out fight, but in my experience, that does not promote the coming together part in the general election.

    I was just making the point that before Trump (BT) people widely agreed what we're saying. AT, not so much.
    Ok. I wasn’t quite clear on what BT and AT was but now I get your point. It’s late and I was a little bit slow to catch something that I should otherwise have.:):
     

    KLB

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    I know a lot of people here are saying they want the knock-down drag out fight, but in my experience, that does not promote the coming together part in the general election.
    When taking on a juvenile bully that is pretty much all you can expect to happen.
     

    KLB

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    I think calling DeSantis a juvenile bully is a step too far. Weak, yes, indecisive, yes; but not juvenile or a bully


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