City to install cameras that record license plate numbers

[Blinken]

Know the locations ?

State Roads at the Boone county line

 

[Sylvain]

Our new "next generation indestructible" speed cameras are getting disabled just as fast as the older generation.

One guy recently climbed a camera and got himself chained to it ...

Other people used trash bags ...
Again sit on top of it (not sure if it's the same guy or not).

The angle grinder is still widely used.

 

[Ingomike]

Our new "next generation indestructible" speed cameras are getting disabled just as fast as the older generation.

One guy recently climbed a camera and got himself chained to it ...

Other people used trash bags ...
Again sit on top of it (not sure if it's the same guy or not).

The angle grinder is still widely used.

Is this an organized thing or a organic thing? Does this happen all over or in a specific area?

 

[bwframe]

Is this an organized thing or a organic thing? Does this happen all over or in a specific area?

I'm curious to how the anti-camera movement got started on France? Was it the result of fines?

Was it similar to Indiana when we first started getting traffic light tickets. Apparently some of the wrong people here got tickets and legislation was quickly passed?

 

[Ingomike]

I'm curious to how the anti-camera movement got started on France? Was it the result of fines?

Was it similar to Indiana when we first started getting traffic light tickets. Apparently some of the wrong people here got tickets and legislation was quickly passed?

Reminds me of a story I read back years ago. These details may not be perfect but the premise is right. As I recall it occurred in Missouri in a small town of 400 people that was located at the bottom of a hill, meaning it was downhill all the way into town from both ways. They set up speed traps and pulled vehicles over fir speeding at an incredible pace.

They soon had over the population in police officers, a mega police station and court system with all the latest greatest equipment. They literally ran the whole town as they paid for everything the town needed. Almost sounds like an old west movie doesn’t it?

Then they pull over the wrong guy and were to stupid to just let one go, they enforced one on a high ranking state legislator and was he ever ticked. He proposed legislation that town finances could not be funded by fines by more than 25%, the other 75% had to come from elsewhere. He got it passed.

The town went bankrupt and last I heard had one part time officer…

 

[rhamersley]

Reminds me of a story I read back years ago. These details may not be perfect but the premise is right. As I recall it occurred in Missouri in a small town of 400 people that was located at the bottom of a hill, meaning it was downhill all the way into town from both ways. They set up speed traps and pulled vehicles over fir speeding at an incredible pace.

They soon had over the population in police officers, a mega police station and court system with all the latest greatest equipment. They literally ran the whole town as they paid for everything the town needed. Almost sounds like an old west movie doesn’t it?

Then they pull over the wrong guy and were to stupid to just let one go, they enforced one on a high ranking state legislator and was he ever ticked. He proposed legislation that town finances could not be funded by fines by more than 25%, the other 75% had to come from elsewhere. He got it passed.

The town went bankrupt and last I heard had one part time officer…

Somebody’s dogma got run over by their karma…

 

[Sylvain]

Is this an organized thing or a organic thing? Does this happen all over or in a specific area?

It's all over France.
A few years ago we had "yellow vests" protests, a lof of speed cameras got destroyed back then.
But it happened before, and kept happening after.

Here if you are caught 40Km/h (24mph) above the speed limit you get a big fine and they take your driver's licence away.
You then cannot drive for the next 3 years (5 years if you hurt someone while speeding).

So for a lot of people they also lose their job.
If you get caught by cops (not a camera) you will go home on foot because they will also keep your car since you lost the right to drive (if there's nothing else with you with a valid licence).

 

[bwframe]

...Here if you are caught 40Km/h (24mph) above the speed limit you get a big fine and they take your driver's licence away.
You then cannot drive for the next 3 years (5 years if you hurt someone while speeding).

So for a lot of people they also lose their job.
If you get caught by cops (not a camera) you will go home on foot because they will also keep your car since you lost the right to drive (if there's nothing else with you with a valid licence).

Wow. France must not have any crime or murder at all, with such strictness on moving vehicle violations?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

It's cute you think a trooper knows more about traffic law than Frank or I. I'm pretty solid on Indiana law and federal law as it applies to us, but I was pretty up front I didn't know the current status of KY. I haven't cared for about 18 years now. Where you are absolutely correct is much of the federal law, pretty much any excise law, and those sorts of specialties. I was a cop for about 3-4 years before I learned running a still was illegal...

The trooper comment wasn't a knock on you or Frank, it was a jab at troopers. In that they are just traffic ticket machines. Which isn't true. Heck I've been pulled over a few times by troopers and haven't gotten a ticket, honestly I've probably been let off over 1/2 the time. Last time was a month or so ago. He had me dead to rights for a rolling stop on a stop sign. And it was admittedly a very rolling stop. He gave me a warning.

And I'm sure you are pretty solid on most of IN law, but I'm guessing you are more solid in the areas that you work with everyday. Same with Frank or any other officer. To compare I'd say Hough or Kirk are both pretty solid on most of IN law, but much more solid in their areas of expertise. Or Drs. I'd rather have a proctologist do a colonoscopy on me than a brain surgeon, although my wife would say in my case it would be the same either way. Or heck even auto mechanics, I'm not going to take a 1/4 mile hemi cuda dragster to a european car specialist and I'm not going to take a high end european car to a guy that builds drag motors for a living.

Yes you were upfront about not knowing the status of KY law, but the SCOTUS opinion isn't just KY. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you probably don't deal much with GPS trackers and vehicles, which is why you didn't know about that opinion. Same as let's say an opinion about something traffic related in an area you don't work in. This is not a knock on you or any LEO or anybody really, you can't be expected to know everything.

 

[Somemedic]

Well I think a bigger question is what private industry or a private citizen could do with a similar system. I mean think about it. What would be the cost of a system like this to attach to my own vehicle and drive-through the point blank parking lot to use Metadata to send coupons or email ads to a focused set Of people? It is legal, but just because you can do you really think you should? I buy 3 of these systems and pay someone $10 an hour to drive around while we send coupons to everyone parked at the grocery store. UberLPR drivers...

Do I not have the right to be left alone or do I not have a right or expectation to have some modicum of privacy? It's not unlike the state government or county government to completely screw something up and a system like this sure has all the earmarks of screwing something up wholesale. Events they already sold our license plate data to advanced auto, autozone commautozone, and o'reilly's auto parts stores? Can't you just give the chick behind the counter your plate number and she has your vehicle identification number using your plate? You're damn right they did.

My sister who owned a business in Highland for a time was obtaining furniture off of craigslist and occasionally had to go into the State of Illinois to pick up some of those purchases. Because she used an easy pass the State of Illinois figured she was coming into the state and owed the State of Illinois some sales or income tax. Even sent tax collectors to her store. I don't know what law they thought was being broken or what crime had been committed by her. I have to believe that tax was paid on the furniture at the time of this its original purchase. But don't tell me that the purposes of these cameras will only be used altruistically .

 

[qwerty]

One of the nice things about BWC was the number of false complaints when way down. As a field sergeant, I got a lot of recanting about foul language, abusive behavior, etc. as soon as I mentioned the officer was wearing a BWC.

This 1000%. Going on five years where a citizen complaint was not refuted when in-car or body-worn camera video was used. The best is when someone is complaining, and you say, "we will review the video" and they quickly change their tune and start walking it back once they realize it won't end well for them. The expense is hefty, but to date, has been worth it. The draw-back is the request from defense attorneys looking for something; They never find it, but fulfilling requests can be a pain.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes you were upfront about not knowing the status of KY law, but the SCOTUS opinion isn't just KY. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you probably don't deal much with GPS trackers and vehicles, which is why you didn't know about that opinion. Same as let's say an opinion about something traffic related in an area you don't work in. This is not a knock on you or any LEO or anybody really, you can't be expected to know everything.

It didn't change anything in IN, which is why I either forgot about it or never heard about it. We already got a warrant for any GPS device. I was involved in that sort of thing until about 4 years ago, off and on. Pretty heavily for awhile, but I never cared for the covert stuff. I get bored too easily to do a lot of sit-n-wait stuff. And Troopers do a lot more than run traffic, particularly in the more rural areas of the state. Like the TSA, I am apparently cloaked against them though as they never pull me over/grope me (as appropriate) or steal my wallet.

 

[Leadeye]

I've always figured state cops carry chainsaws around here. The highway debris gets cleaned up pretty quick.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

It didn't change anything in IN, which is why I either forgot about it or never heard about it. We already got a warrant for any GPS device. I was involved in that sort of thing until about 4 years ago, off and on. Pretty heavily for awhile, but I never cared for the covert stuff. I get bored too easily to do a lot of sit-n-wait stuff. And Troopers do a lot more than run traffic, particularly in the more rural areas of the state. Like the TSA, I am apparently cloaked against them though as they never pull me over/grope me (as appropriate) or steal my wallet.

Okay, I guessed wrong. And yes I know that Troopers do a lot more than run traffic. I live in a more rural area of the state, not the most rural but pretty rural. My city (county seat) has a dozen full time officers and that includes everyone from the Chief to the animal control/ordinance enforcement officer. We don't have a swat team or bomb squad, I don't think any dept in my county has one. ISP has a lot more resources to draw from than the locals. There was a suspicious package a couple of years ago left outside the post office, ISP bomb squad was called. There was a guy who was being taken in for an emergency probation revocation who was thought to be armed and was refusing to surrender, yep ISP swat was called. And that doesn't touch any help given in investigations and such.

I haven't been pulled over much in the last 15-20 years, except for one town when I was working there. In three years I was pulled over more times by that towns LE than every other stop in the last 15-20 years combined.

 

[jwamplerusa]

What they are doing is a very different thing. Are these readers on a pole somewhere? Then yes as seen in the pictures. My understanding is most departments are deploying the readers on city vehicles, a different situation.

A Zionsville camera.

 

[thompal]

I'm guessing this won't be taken well...

The vehicle is supposed to be properly tagged (plated).
That's the law you agreed to when you got a driver's licence (a privilege, not a 'Right').

Those plates are supposed to be clearly visible, space for the plate provided by the manufacturer to keep you legal.
It couldn't be more simple.

Anything in the public domain (roadways, public access parking spaces, etc.)
It's clearly legal to video.

.......

*IF* you aren't doing anything illegal, why is it a problem with you?

.......

You all complain about crime, particularly crimes against persons, but you complain when a tool is available that will help solve, or potentially reduce those crimes?

It seems to be schizophrenic thinking (at best) to first want crime reduced, or solved,
Then complain about tools that will allow law enforcement to do just that very thing...

You DEMAND things change, crimes get solved, then turn right around and demand law enforcement does it *YOUR* way...

It's not about *YOU*,
And you can't have it both ways.

.......

As to "Big Brother" watching *YOUR* every move...

Get over yourself, you just aren't that important.

No reason to give you the first thought if you aren't doing something illegal.
There are thousands of hours of video of most people going about the business of normal life, and no one gives a crap in the slightest...

It's actually a pain in the butt to have so many average people in the frame when they are trying to catch criminals...
From privacy rights to storage media space, to eyeballs to figure out the difference.

I have deleted thousands of hours of video of just average folks from my small security system simply because they weren't doing anything illegal (or interesting).

There is an entire industry in the billions of dollars just trying to filter the average folks OUT of video so they can concentrate on criminals.
(See every video security company in the world)

This makes me think there are ulterior motives involved,
From paranoia (mental illness), thinking they are so important the NSA/CIA/FBI is tracking their every move,
(The tin foil hat bunch)

To shady people doing sketchy stuff not wanting to get caught...

You're one of those people who would just let the police come into your house and search because "you aren't doing anything illegal," aren't you?

 

[thompal]

The article mentions that the Wyoming cameras will not be used for traffic but for major crimes, maybe so. While I'm not a policeman, I have to ask how often "major crimes" are committed with stolen cars rendering the camera info moot.

The key is that, for them to be able to use them to get evidence of any crime which may have happened minutes or hours before, they will have to record every plate number/time/location and put it all into a database.

Combine that with the facial recognition systems which are certainly being used on the surveillance cameras downtown, and quite a bit of information can be gleaned.

They always claim that they will only keep the information for x days, but who actually believes that?

 

[thompal]

But, where/when does it stop? Ask the Chinese people how they feel about the 1.4 billion of them being under constant watch.

Or the people in Hong Kong who use a variety of face camouflage to defeat facial recognition cameras.

 

[thompal]

I have had a long discussion with both Chief Spears and Sheriff Neilsen regarding license plate scanners and their use. Both were able to provide specific references to events where the cameras played a direct role in capturing criminals and keeping drugs out of our community.

If only we had a police officer INSIDE every business and house, and the government monitoring every phone call and computer communication, crime could be drastically reduced.

When your job is reducing crime, it seems like a reasonable thing.

It's the same with public health. When your job is preventing or reducing illness, then mandatory vaccines, mask mandates, and lockdowns, and isolating sick individuals in camps all seem very useful.

Unfortunately for those statist mindsets, our underlying foundation is "liberty," not "security" or "safety."

Anyone who cheers for the security or police state is an enemy to liberty.

 

[thompal]

What they are doing is a very different thing. Are these readers on a pole somewhere? Then yes as seen in the pictures. My understanding is most departments are deploying the readers on city vehicles, a different situation.

I remember a report a year or so ago that said that IMPD was starting a pilot program to install these on patrol cars, so they could instantly run the plate of every car they passed.

I haven't heard anything about it since then.