Slavery in America

[jamil]

This thread is probably the best argument, I've seen, for CRT being taught in schools.

The more I think about this, the more I think you owe an explanation for why.

 

[jamil]

Make your case. Tell me specifically what makes it garbage and brainwashing.

I think since you're the one who made the claim that this thread is an argument for why CRT should be taught, it's on you to make the case that it should. I'm waiting.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Some things that are true and worth saying in the vein of this thread: Slavery isn't uniquely race based. It hystocrically hasn't been. Formerly nations that defeated other nations mad slaves of the conquered people. The African slave trade came about because slavers, including Africans, subdued other Africans and sold them as slaves. It became a racial component in slavery because Africans became the most traded slave product. And Euoropeans, because African slaves looked so different from themselves, could forgive their consciences because they could convince themselves that Africans were less human.

The West's participation in slavery is not an indictment of Western values though. The West abolished slavery before most of the world did.

But, some things that should be amended in the OP: We were not the first Western contry to completely do away with slavery. Denmark-Norway was (1803). Great Britain did it in 1807. We weren't even the first in the Western Hemisphere. Haiti did it in 1804 shortly after its independance. Many other countries abolished slavery before the US did, and only with a stroke of pen. It took six more decades and a civil war to wrest the institution of slavery from the people who wanted to keep it here. That said, I'm not gonna give GB a total pass because they abolished it so long before the US. They depended on import of goods made from slave hands. They didn't act like they were all that eager for us to join them.

Also, to the idea that there were Black slave owners in the US, yes ,there were. But it was primarily Blacks who had been freed that owned slaves. They bought their own friends and relatives. Not to be slaves, but so that they could be reunited and so they wouldn't be slaves to other men.

But the point that we need to put the issue of slavery behind us is true. No one wants the return of slavery, except, perhaps some of the same people who are pushing CRT seem to want to flip the hierarchy. Not even white nationalists want to bring back slavery. They just think nations should be segregated, which, odly, some of the CRT pushers seem to agree. There still is racism, but nothing like what we had 100 years ago. Much progress has been made but the people pushing CRT don't seem to want to end racism. It's why we call them race baiters, because they their demand for real ass racism excedes the supply. So then they make **** up.

Solid
...and the US was one of the LAST western nations to abolish slavery, not first - as mentioned in the OP.

 

[jamil]

Threads like these tend to be short lived though.

Yeah. I see what you mean. I don't expect it to live long if some people can't approach it in good faith.

 

[jamil]

Solid
...and the US was one of the LAST western nations to abolish slavery, not first - as mentioned in the OP.

Why is that astonishing? If we're going to have these conversations in good faith, why would we not want to challenge beliefs that we know are perhaps misinformed? People read stuff and believe stuff, and not all the stuff people believe is true. So when we know something isn't true, like historical facts, it's worth saying what's true. And like I said, the things that weren't factually correct don't take away from the overall message that we need to make less of race, not more. DNA is unimportant. Immutable characteristics is at best an arbitrary way to think about the value of people. I've always believed that. And I think my body of posts on INGO supports that.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

This thread is probably the best argument, I've seen, for CRT being taught in schools.

And CRT is probably the single best/biggest argument for reintroducing critical thinking, logic and debate back into schools... there are many, many others.

Quite simply, CRT is "if A then B... B therefore A" which logic 101 dispels as a logical fallacy.

It was cosmic that I was reading the article below this morning with my coffee, and then this thread. In a nutshell, American-born blacks have statistically worse outcomes in numerous areas than any other group, so it's gotta be systemic racism.

25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

Research has extensively documented the differences between the Black and white experience in the US, from wealth and education to incarceration.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[BigRed]

Many other countries abolished slavery before the US did, and only with a stroke of pen. It took six more decades and a civil war to wrest the institution of slavery from the people who wanted to keep it here. That said,

The war between the States was not to end slavery. It was to enforce the union.

Deified Lincoln himself said as much.

Just an important point to be noted.... not going to hijack the thread.

 

[eldirector]

Slavery <> Racism.

Plenty of people hate plenty of other people, and not a bit of forced servitude involved.

That said, literal slavery (ownership and sale of a person) is indeed a modern and all-to-common issue, even in the Developed world. Some 24.9 million people are victims of slavery today. Here in the USA we see approx. 200,000 "human trafficking" cases per per year. The majority of victims are women, and sold for sex.

And while I am sure there is a "racial" component to modern slavery, it isn't as cut and dry as the media and government would like you to think. Certainly not white men buying/selling black women. More like Black/White/Asian men/women buying/selling Black/white/asian/latina women.

Sadly, "we" are all too focused on how to hate each other. If we devoted a fraction of that energy into solutions, think of the impact we could have.

 

[wtburnette]

The Left is intent on pushing it's racist indoctrination on the rest of us so that we're so concerned about our differences that we focus on that instead of them continuing to amass power and push their senseless agenda.

 

[BigRed]

That said, literal slavery (ownership and sale of a person) is indeed a modern and all-to-common issue, even in the Developed world. Some 24.9 million people are victims of slavery today. Here in the USA we see approx. 200,000 "human trafficking" cases per per year. The majority of victims are women, and sold for sex.

And that is not even counting the millions of individuals who have the fruit of their labor stripped from them by force.

 

[printcraft]

The more I think about this, the more I think you owe an explanation for why.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The more I think about this, the more I think you owe an explanation for why.

I think since you're the one who made the claim that this thread is an argument for why CRT should be taught, it's on you to make the case that it should. I'm waiting.

The idea that the original sin of the United States had long-lasting repercussions that endure to this day, and which can explain a number social, political, economic, and legal issues. The problem that I see with most people, is that they time that they think what's being said is that it's as bad "now," as it was "then," that plainly false. We're nowhere close. Another problem is that some people think they're being called racists simply because of the CRT notion. That's not true either.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The war between the States was not to end slavery. It was to enforce the union.

Deified Lincoln himself said as much.

Just an important point to be noted.... not going to hijack the thread.

This is true. But this is also true... "While the North did not fight to end slavery, the South fought to preserve it."

 

[Kutnupe14]

The Left is intent on pushing it's racist indoctrination on the rest of us so that we're so concerned about our differences that we focus on that instead of them continuing to amass power and push their senseless agenda.

You're calling it racist indoctrination; can you please tell me exactly how CRT is that? In what way does the concept cultivate racism against, assumedly, White people living today.

 

[Leo]

As of 2018, the countries with the most slaves were: India (8 million), China (3.86 million), Pakistan (3.19 million), North Korea (2.64 million), Nigeria (1.39 million), Indonesia (1.22 million), Democratic Republic of the Congo (1 million), Russia (794,000) and the Philippines (784,000).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century

Slavery in the 21st century - Wikipedia​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century


The United States of America eliminated slavery April 9, 1865.

Sadly, most Americans are willing to reenter slavery by their own volition with credit contracts. Remarkably, they do not recognize their error, and then choose to claim victim hood. esp. those who had a great social time in college.

 

[Leadeye]

Topics like this make me get out old copies of National Lampoon and realize how far things have come in such a short time.

 

[Spear Dane]

5 hours in and not locked, impressive.
2 things I know to be absolute truth.

Humans have been enslaving each other since the beginning. It has no basis in race. It is quite possible every single one of us in this thread has an ancestor who was a slave at some point.

Racism is universal and part of the human condition and boils down to ancient tribalism. We don't like 'others'. We fear 'the other'. This is basic human psychology and an inconvenient truth that places a burden on each of us that few want to bear, so I expect someone (or many such) to come along and decry and moan and lament and gnash their molars and swear on God's Holy Bible they don't have a racist bone in their body. Horse hockey. You're either lying or denying.
The burden is we have to be aware of this fact and always be on guard against acting on what our ancient monkey brain is telling us.

.This is why I absolutely LOATH the whole 'diversity' thing. It's horribly divisive (duh) and exclusive. Yeah, I look at Kut. Hi, Kut. I can tell he isn't like me. Easy peasy. I don't need a herd of useless ass PhD's in XYZ Studies to tell me that. What we need is to be shown all the things WE SHARE. Not diversity. Commonality.
'Celebrating' differences is stupid and counterproductive...pretty much exactly what the left seems to want. Divide and conquer. It's exactly the same dehumanizing propaganda process used in wars. We need to humanize the different person. To be shown they have the same goals and ambition as the rest of us, whoever 'us' is.
Basically we all want to live decent lives and provide for our families. We love our kids, we love our elders; all of us. We are all humans.

 

[Kutnupe14]

As of 2018, the countries with the most slaves were: India (8 million), China (3.86 million), Pakistan (3.19 million), North Korea (2.64 million), Nigeria (1.39 million), Indonesia (1.22 million), Democratic Republic of the Congo (1 million), Russia (794,000) and the Philippines (784,000).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century

Slavery in the 21st century - Wikipedia​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century


The United States of America eliminated slavery April 9, 1865.

Sadly, most Americans are willing to reenter slavery by their own volition with credit contracts. Remarkably, they do not recognize their error, and then choose to claim victim hood. esp. those who had a great social time in college.

Slavery rarely includes voluntary contracts.

 

[HoughMade]

I have not understood that to be true. The theory is on solid ground, as I understand it, and not something I would call racist. Perhaps we have different understandings of what it is. And I misspoke. I don't think CRT should be taught in primary or secondary schools.

CRT is not on solid intellectual or academic ground as it is based upon flawed historical analysis, to say the least.

This is not to say that there is not currently racism or that slavery had ill effects which still linger. Both are true, in my opinion. However, CRT is not about that, primarily. It is about a theory that race, and more specifically, racism, is at the center of everything foundational to modern life. It simply is not and was not.

 

[jamil]

The war between the States was not to end slavery. It was to enforce the union.

Deified Lincoln himself said as much.

Just an important point to be noted.... not going to hijack the thread.

We can address that in a civil war thread. I don't want to derail this thread.