How the ATF, Key to Biden's Gun Plan, Became an NRA 'Whipping Boy'

[CampingJosh]

Exactly where in the constitution is the right to vote? I see where if there are votes they cannot discriminate. The constitution directs electors to the EC in the manor prescribed by the legislature

Article IV section 4. "A Republican form of Government" requires citizens voting.

 

[gregr]

I'm not opposed to voter ID. It's disingenuous to present the wave of new voter restrictions as basically just voter ID laws, though.

I would be OK with requiring in-person, ID-verified voting for nearly all situations if the polling places were more numerous and more accessible. I think voting should be available 24/7 in every township for two weeks. Voting machines should be available and allotted proportionally to the population such that no one has to wait longer to vote than we have to wait for a NICS check.

In my county, I spent more time unholstering to go into the courthouse to vote (early) than I spent waiting in line. I presented my ID, and then I immediately went to a machine to vote. That's how it should be for everyone. A couple of my friends in a more ethnically diverse area had to wait a full four hours--during business hours on a work day. They each had jobs that allowed them to take that time off--and they have enough wealth that they can give up 8 hours (combined) of pay to stand in line. I think there's a fair argument to be made that any system which requires people to give up income in order to vote is functionally a poll tax.

24/7 voting? Nah, not feasible, nor necessary. And unfortunately, not everyone has the ease of voting and the short time that you experienced, but that`s the way it goes. The integrity of the vote has zero to do with ease of voting. Lack of ease of voting only becomes an issue if it, a) discourages voting, AND, b) there are other, better ways to accommodate voters that STILL protect the integrity of the vote.

 

[KLB]

That implies the right to vote but it does not define it. That was one of my counterarguments that I did not care to use.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

[BugI02]

About the only thing I wonder about is big stuff....definitely nothing that meets the definition of firearm. If I can hold it and shoot it, I should be able to own it.

RPG?

 

[BugI02]

That's why an Indiana Biden voter must be held accountable for everything Biden does, even if in reality, their vote for Biden had no real impact on Biden taking office.

It has a real impact on our estimation of them as a person. All other whinge-worthy effects flow from that

 

[jamil]

Article IV section 4. "A Republican form of Government" requires citizens voting.

That implies the right which does not directly call it out as a right. We all acknowledge that voting is a right. But the constitution doesn’t directly establish it like the bill of rights does. And the constitution explicitly gives the states the power to regulate elections.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm not opposed to voter ID. It's disingenuous to present the wave of new voter restrictions as basically just voter ID laws, though.

I would be OK with requiring in-person, ID-verified voting for nearly all situations if the polling places were more numerous and more accessible. I think voting should be available 24/7 in every township for two weeks. Voting machines should be available and allotted proportionally to the population such that no one has to wait longer to vote than we have to wait for a NICS check.

In my county, I spent more time unholstering to go into the courthouse to vote (early) than I spent waiting in line. I presented my ID, and then I immediately went to a machine to vote. That's how it should be for everyone. A couple of my friends in a more ethnically diverse area had to wait a full four hours--during business hours on a work day. They each had jobs that allowed them to take that time off--and they have enough wealth that they can give up 8 hours (combined) of pay to stand in line. I think there's a fair argument to be made that any system which requires people to give up income in order to vote is functionally a poll tax.

We don't have the people to operate 24/7 polls. Beyond this i doubt many people are working 7 days a week with no recourse. As that goes we could mandate people being given a day off work to vote. I am not feeling the sympathy with lost time. Most states have voting available on at least one Saturday. Inhibiting voting is one thing, but bending over backwards to put people in booths in spite of themselves is entirely different.

 

[BigRed]

#3 is also a policy issue. We're having new laws implemented in several states that are making it more difficult to vote, and the reason given is that we just had an election stolen. The reality is that we didn't have an election stolen.
Most of the new laws aren't stopping anyone qualified from voting, but they are designed to make the process harder in order to discourage citizens from exercising their rights.

Every now and then I come across a post that reminds me why I never walk barefoot in a cow pasture.

 

[jamil]

I'm not opposed to voter ID. It's disingenuous to present the wave of new voter restrictions as basically just voter ID laws, though.

I would be OK with requiring in-person, ID-verified voting for nearly all situations if the polling places were more numerous and more accessible. I think voting should be available 24/7 in every township for two weeks. Voting machines should be available and allotted proportionally to the population such that no one has to wait longer to vote than we have to wait for a NICS check.

In my county, I spent more time unholstering to go into the courthouse to vote (early) than I spent waiting in line. I presented my ID, and then I immediately went to a machine to vote. That's how it should be for everyone. A couple of my friends in a more ethnically diverse area had to wait a full four hours--during business hours on a work day. They each had jobs that allowed them to take that time off--and they have enough wealth that they can give up 8 hours (combined) of pay to stand in line. I think there's a fair argument to be made that any system which requires people to give up income in order to vote is functionally a poll tax.

The voter ID was just one example since that seems to be one that gives Leftists the biggest hardon. It wasn’t disingenuous.

So let’s talk about waiting in line. I’ve spent several hours in the past waiting in line. The last couple of elections I made use of Indiana’s early in-person voting. The hours were pretty wide ranging. Great selection of days available. I think I went on a Saturday. There were only two locations in my county that were open for early voting. None of them were in my district but in Indiana you have choices of locations. Very quick. No lines. I got back in my truck literally 5 minutes after I stepped out. Easy peasy.

Why didn’t your friends avail themselves of that? And if they just had to vote on election day they still didn’t have to vote in their own neighborhood. They could have gone to whatever location they wanted. I drove 12 miles. Not a big deal. Was your location far from them?

 

[jamil]

KLB, I did say we all recognize that voting IS a right. Mike said that the constitution doesn’t directly establish or however he said it, the right to vote. I’m saying he’s right. But as for what we’re talking about, the constitution grants authority to the states for regulating that right, which implies that it can be regulated. I’m not arguing that states should do much regulating. But it’s clear that this is quite different from the right to keep and bear arms in that the government has to provide the means by which people can exercise the right, and is given the authority to regulate that.

We want voting to be fair and as equally accessible as can be managed while also being of high integrity.

 

[KG1]

The integrity of the vote should be a high priority for both parties.

 

[rooster]

The integrity of the vote should be a high priority for both parties.

It’s also important to note that I recall the author of that book saying that ballot boxes had three physical locks on them. One of each party and then another that I don’t recall who held it.

the ballot box was kept under armed guard and attempts to tamper with it would result in a shooting.

perhaps if we took our election security that seriously today we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

 

[KG1]

There is just way to much loosey goosey **** going on which tends to make alot of people cynical about the integrity of the process that could definitely use some tightening up.

 

[CampingJosh]

Why is 24/7 voting unfeasible but the F-35 is feasible hundreds of times over? One of these is much more difficult than the other.

New money wouldn't even be required. At any given time, hundreds of thousands of people are being paid by government to look for work. I found some for them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Exactly where in the constitution is the right to vote? I see where if there are votes they cannot discriminate. The constitution directs electors to the EC in the manor prescribed by the legislature

You exhibit exactly what the Anti-Federalists feared, when the demanded the BoRs. That being that people only view rights as those explicitly spelled out in the Constitution. That sir, is not the case. It is a right to chose the people who will make laws you are subject to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That implies the right to vote but it does not define it. That was one of my counterarguments that I did not care to use.

Well, that’s because you understand the flaw of the argument.

 

[Ingomike]

You exhibit exactly what the Anti-Federalists feared, when the demanded the BoRs. That being that people only view rights as those explicitly spelled out in the Constitution. That sir, is not the case. It is a right to chose the people who will make laws you are subject to.

Sorry, the right to vote is not an inalienable right.

The constitution lays out that the president and vp are elected by the EC by electors chosen as the state legislatures decide.

The house is popular vote.

The senate was by vote of state legislatures until it was stupidly amended to popular vote thus creating 100 mini presidents

 

[IndyDave1776]

Why is 24/7 voting unfeasible but the F-35 is feasible hundreds of times over? One of these is much more difficult than the other.

New money wouldn't even be required. At any given time, hundreds of thousands of people are being paid by government to look for work. I found some for them.

We aren't talking about hiring cashiers for the 7-11 or building machines. Voting requires the participation of several members of each party at each location during all hours it is in operation. This isn't something just any damned body can do.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Sorry, the right to vote is not an inalienable right.

The constitution lays out that the president and vp are elected by the EC by electors chosen as the state legislatures decide.

The house is popular vote.

The senate was by vote of state legislatures until it was stupidly amended to popular vote thus creating 100 mini presidents

We will disagree as to whether having a voice in choosing the people who would rule over you, is a right or not. I would hope one would recognize that the Constitution has never been the litmus test for what is or isn’t a right.

 

[Ingomike]

We will disagree as to whether having a voice in choosing the people who would rule over you, is a right or not. I would hope one would recognize that the Constitution has never been the litmus test for what is or isn’t a right.

We can agree that the constitution is not a litmus test for what is and is not an inalienable right. But one man, one vote is a contrivance of man, not God. The constitution is the road map to self governance and prescribes the way we select those that represent us...