Do lasers really help

[JCSR]

BIG whoops on my part

BIG whoops on my part. My brain jumped from laser to red dot. Apologies to the thread participants.

Sorry, I'm not sure I can ever forgive you. J/K

 

[JHB]

I'm no marksman doing challenges

I was commenting on Brent answer about lasers used at SC matches.

If you want to use one for self defense go for it it's your hide not mine.

 

[gryphnrider]

I was commenting on Brent answer about lasers used at SC matches.

If you want to use one for self defense go for it it's your hide not mine.

Problem is I have never used one and am reluctant to spend the hard earned money to realize I don't like/need it

 

[JHB]

I tried one and don't like them. They take some time and a lot of practice to acquire the dot. Then if it quits you are looking for a dot that isn't there in a high stress situation. Then you need to change your mind set to use the iron sights. Like anything with battery's it can quit at any time. I don't care how often they are changed.
A good set of iron sights are there all the time if the front sight fell off you are still looking at the point it would have been. Pointing the gun in the correct direction not up or down you still see the top of the slide.
At seven to ten yards all you need is a visible front sight to hit center mass if you can't more ammo and presentation practice is needed.
I have cataracts and am half blind in my right eye and am right handed if I can do it anyone can all ii takes is practice.
Find some one that has one and try it. I think they are a poor substitute for a lack of practice.

 

[gryphnrider]

I tried one and don't like them. They take some time and a lot of practice to acquire the dot. Then if it quits you are looking for a dot that isn't there in a high stress situation. Then you need to change your mind set to use the iron sights. Like anything with battery's it can quit at any time. I don't care how often they are changed.
A good set of iron sights are there all the time if the front sight fell off you are still looking at the point it would have been. Pointing the gun in the correct direction not up or down you still see the top of the slide.
At seven to ten yards all you need is a visible front sight to hit center mass if you can't more ammo and presentation practice is needed.
I have cataracts and am half blind in my right eye and am right handed if I can do it anyone can all ii takes is practice.
Find some one that has one and try it. I think they are a poor substitute for a lack of practice.

Thank you

 

[flightsimmer]

If you're close enough to use a laser, you are perfectly capable of point shooting.
If you're over the hill and the eyes aren't picking up the front site like they used to, get a brighter front site or a decent optic.
Visible lasers are gimmicky pieces of chinesium garbage, meant for scrambling the brains of house cats.

 

[flightsimmer]

Crimson Trace lasers are made in the USA and so far I have found them to be very reliable. I don't know about the cheap Chinese junk but just buy American made and you'll be okay.
But to each his own.

 

[Vigilant]

I found that once I attached lasers to the heads of my sharks that their sinister man-killingness went up by at least a magnitude.

Lasers on sharks is sooo Austin Powers, you need feet on sharks, cuz erry body knows Land Sharks is some bad mother truckers!

 

[Brad69]

I was the dude with the green laser built into my light MC was referring about during John’s low light class.
Dot is sighted on top of the front sight.
Place dot on target squeeze trigger Hit.

 

[DadSmith]

There is one thing I would use a laser on if I had one and if they made a end cap laser for it. That would be one of these short pistol shotguns. I'm not going to hold one of them upto my face to aim using high brass high velocity buckshot or slugs. However a laser on the end cap with adjustments i would buy one. Right now there is no way to properly aim them imo.

 

[shadow64]

My son 26 now has very bad vision and normal sights are to hard to focus on. About 3yrs ago I put a laser on his 22lr pistol and he gets much more enjoyment out of it now it also helped his confidence . It works great on the indoor range but outside it barely visible. so they are useful to some people I personally don’t use them.

 

[peterock]

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications​

​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

Can you show legal precedent(s) of this being used successfully in a SD case?

 

[JCSR]

Can you show legal precedent(s) of this being used successfully in a SD case?

It's all here. You really should get this book. Things in court aren't so easy.

Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense​

by Massad Ayoob (

 

[flightsimmer]

It's all here. You really should get this book. Things in court aren't so easy.

Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense​

by Massad Ayoob (

When I purchased the firearm used, that's the way it was.

 

[JCSR]

When I purchased the firearm used, that's the way it was.

Yes but a aggressive prosecutor will go after it in court. They also go after hollow-point ammo even though it's safer in many ways. Reading Ayoob's book opened my eyes.

 

[flightsimmer]

Yes but a aggressive prosecutor will go after it in court. They also go after hollow-point ammo even though it's safer in many ways. Reading Ayoob's book opened my eyes.

Well close your eyes and go to sleep, I think you made your point.

 

[JCSR]

Well close your eyes and go to sleep, I think you made your point.

A good point is your gun can be purchased with iron sights or with a laser that makes it easier to kill with. You made your choice and you take your chances in court.

 

[Route 45]

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications​

​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

If I could harness the amount of bull **** in this post, I could probably fertilize at least 10 acres.

Obvious tripe to instill fear and sell memberships to a legal defense fund.

Hope the "prosecutor" doesn't ask why anyone buys legal defense coverage ahead of time, unless they are planning on shooting someone.

 

[JCSR]

If I could harness the amount of bull **** in this post, I could probably fertilize at least 10 acres.

Obvious tripe to instill fear and sell memberships to a legal defense fund.

Hope the "prosecutor" doesn't ask why anyone buys legal defense coverage ahead of time, unless they are planning on shooting someone.

Yep, they'll sure ask that too. They will probably check you're INGO posts as well. I want every advantage in court. You do you.

 

[Angrysauce]

This thread has drifted so far off course.