Have you looked at our Federal debt lately?
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Secession: an academic discussion
- Thread starter Bill of Rights
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Here is the strangest thing in all of this to me.
Why aren't folks seceding THEMSELVES from federal and government institutions in general where you can?
How many "libertarians" and "conservatives" send their kids off to government schools each day?
Why aren't folks seceding THEMSELVES from federal and government institutions in general where you can?
How many "libertarians" and "conservatives" send their kids off to government schools each day?
New World Order?
I'm afraid you'll fit in fine here.
PS - We do have a Civil Christian Discussion thread for us redeemed.
Just saying, we have one historical precedent to work from and it's not very encouraging to states with ambitions of leaving the union.
Granted the Civil War had the slavery issue, so we don't really know whether the Union would have reconquered the South solely from a resources objective, but it's not like current year media would have a difficult time finding another reason to sell a war focused on destroying white conservatives and their new nation project.
My previous home being Texas, I know a fair bit about the secession talk.
I came to the realization there, that while a great many folks would talk about the Republic of Texas, so long as there was oil money to be made, it would remain talk.
Also, students of history know the Republic of Texas was a hot mess during its brief existence as well.
I came to the realization there, that while a great many folks would talk about the Republic of Texas, so long as there was oil money to be made, it would remain talk.
Also, students of history know the Republic of Texas was a hot mess during its brief existence as well.
I'm also from Texas.
From my previous post a month or so ago in a different thread, but read at bottom, applies to all states. Only way it would happen would be by some treaty of some sort.
From texas.gov
[FONT="]Q: Did the terms of Texas's admission to the Union include permission to withdraw if it found statehood not to its liking?
A: It is said of Texas (and, occasionally, Vermont) that it received a letter or document of permission to withdraw from the Federal Union if it so chose. In the case of Texas, this permission is sometimes said to have been granted at the time of Texas's admission as a state. Other times it is said to have been included in the terms readmitting Texas to the Union after the Civil War.
In fact, Texas received no special terms in its admission to the Union. Once Texas had agreed to join the Union, she never had the legal option of leaving, either before or after the Civil War.
The early years of the United States had seen a great deal of debate over whether states could, in fact, legally withdraw from the Union. During the War of 1812 it was New England that wanted to secede from the rest of the country. Later, it was the Southern states. Secessionists argued that states were sovereign and had the right to withdraw from the Union. Opponents countered that the Constitution created a sovereign union that, once entered into, could never be broken. Eventually, the question was put to the test and settled permanently on the battlefields of the Civil War.
The Presidential Proclamation declaring peace between the United States and Texas after the Civil War, dated August 20, 1866, states very clearly in the following passage that no state had the right to leave the Union (emphasis added in all capitals):
And whereas,
the President of the United States, by further proclamation issued on the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, did promulgate and declare, that there no longer existed any armed resistance of misguided citizens, or others, to the authority of the United States in any, or in all the States before mentioned, excepting only the State of Texas, and did further promulgate and declare that the laws could be sustained and enforced in the several States before mentioned, except Texas, by the proper civil authorities, State, or Federal, and that the people of the said States, except Texas, are well and loyally disposed, and have conformed or will conform in their legislation to the condition of affairs growing out of the amendment to the Constitution of the United States, prohibiting slavery within the limits and jurisdiction of the United States;
And did further declare in the same proclamation THAT IT IS THE MANIFEST DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT NO STATE, OF ITS OWN WILL, HAS A RIGHT OR POWER TO GO OUT OF OR SEPARATE ITSELF FROM, OR BE SEPARATED FROM THE AMERICAN UNION; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;
On March 30, 1870, Congress passed the Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congress of the United States. Likewise, this act contains no language that would allow Texas to unilaterally withdraw from the United States.[/FONT]
From my previous post a month or so ago in a different thread, but read at bottom, applies to all states. Only way it would happen would be by some treaty of some sort.
From texas.gov
[FONT="]Q: Did the terms of Texas's admission to the Union include permission to withdraw if it found statehood not to its liking?
A: It is said of Texas (and, occasionally, Vermont) that it received a letter or document of permission to withdraw from the Federal Union if it so chose. In the case of Texas, this permission is sometimes said to have been granted at the time of Texas's admission as a state. Other times it is said to have been included in the terms readmitting Texas to the Union after the Civil War.
In fact, Texas received no special terms in its admission to the Union. Once Texas had agreed to join the Union, she never had the legal option of leaving, either before or after the Civil War.
The early years of the United States had seen a great deal of debate over whether states could, in fact, legally withdraw from the Union. During the War of 1812 it was New England that wanted to secede from the rest of the country. Later, it was the Southern states. Secessionists argued that states were sovereign and had the right to withdraw from the Union. Opponents countered that the Constitution created a sovereign union that, once entered into, could never be broken. Eventually, the question was put to the test and settled permanently on the battlefields of the Civil War.
The Presidential Proclamation declaring peace between the United States and Texas after the Civil War, dated August 20, 1866, states very clearly in the following passage that no state had the right to leave the Union (emphasis added in all capitals):
And whereas,
the President of the United States, by further proclamation issued on the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, did promulgate and declare, that there no longer existed any armed resistance of misguided citizens, or others, to the authority of the United States in any, or in all the States before mentioned, excepting only the State of Texas, and did further promulgate and declare that the laws could be sustained and enforced in the several States before mentioned, except Texas, by the proper civil authorities, State, or Federal, and that the people of the said States, except Texas, are well and loyally disposed, and have conformed or will conform in their legislation to the condition of affairs growing out of the amendment to the Constitution of the United States, prohibiting slavery within the limits and jurisdiction of the United States;
And did further declare in the same proclamation THAT IT IS THE MANIFEST DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT NO STATE, OF ITS OWN WILL, HAS A RIGHT OR POWER TO GO OUT OF OR SEPARATE ITSELF FROM, OR BE SEPARATED FROM THE AMERICAN UNION; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;
On March 30, 1870, Congress passed the Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congress of the United States. Likewise, this act contains no language that would allow Texas to unilaterally withdraw from the United States.[/FONT]
I am hoping Brexit works well and we can all learn from their example. I am sure they will have similar obstacles to overcome, and we can learn much from how they accomplish their break up. Throughout history civilizations have risen and fallen, maybe becoming smaller might slow down that process. A state that wishes to secede may even hire the experts that work on Brexit to help iron out the finer points. Those who retire now on social security can live in another country and still collect it because they earned it here. Europe is full of countries about the size of our states, and yet they still operate.
They even got tired of that pretty quickly.
If you think the debt can’t be sustained then you do not have a great understanding of the global banking system. The money is literally made up and printed at will, debts don’t matter and the economic reports are rigged to get the stock market to do what they want it to and then they silently revise them at a later date.
our own fed and government had no problem turning the printers on full speed to the tune of 500 billion and more a day in asset purchases in order to reverse the downtrend in the stock market last spring.
it’s like whose line is it anyway, “everything is made up and the points don’t matter”
Fed repo operations for any interested
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK of NEW YORK
As you print more money the existing money has less value. Inflation then starts to kick in and can quickly spiral into hyper-inflation.If you think the debt can’t be sustained then you do not have a great understanding of the global banking system. The money is literally made up and printed at will, debts don’t matter and the economic reports are rigged to get the stock market to do what they want it to and then they silently revise them at a later date.
our own fed and government had no problem turning the printers on full speed to the tune of 500 billion and more a day in asset purchases in order to reverse the downtrend in the stock market last spring.
it’s like whose line is it anyway, “everything is made up and the points don’t matter”
Fed repo operations for any interested
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK of NEW YORK
www.newyorkfed.org
It's obvious the politicians in Washington think there are no repercussions to expanding our debt like they are, but at some point it will come crashing down on us.
The entire world is doing it now. Some argue that we need to print an additional 3-5 trillion just to keep up with the world. It’s all relative.
point is a new government assuming that they have industrial base could mint new currency with no problem.
