Live Feed, Patriots at the Capitol

[wtburnette]

Were there more officers than protesters? It didn't look that way. And obviously there seems to be a heck of a lot more protesters, on deck.

d

While there were other officers around there were a lot more people on the other side of the door to overwhelm all of them.

It appeared to be some sort of "last line of defense." If they let her (or anyone through) without using extreme force then others could and would follow. There comes a point where you back up and say, "NO MORE." Having a lawful duty to protect the people and property behind you it eventually becomes reasonable to use all force necessary to put down the mob.

Regards,

Doug

If they were defending the scum (pardon me, politicians) from death or serious bodily harm, maybe shooting would be justified, but I don't think what went down shows what happened as justified. How many police were seriously injured by the protestors? I agree there's a line, I'm just not sure a lethal shooting was the appropriate response. Where were the rubber bullets, tear gas and other non-lethal methods used during cities being freaking burnt down all summer?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Shooting an unarmed female in the neck - who illegally entered the Capitol with a mob of people, assisted in breaking a door window, and then attempted to just through that window, in an attempt to further illegally trespass with motives unknown- definitely sent a message!

Fixed

 

[Dirtebiker]

No one should wish death on anyone, but that lady was dumb. Stupidity doesn’t often carry so severe a consequence, but in this case it did. Being the vanguard in trying to breach a door isn’t the brightest idea.

I agree completely!
I’m not so sure however that her stupidity is what got her killed. I think (and MAYBE we’ll find out later, but I’m not holding my breath.) it was more about the security officer (whoever it was) was too quick on the trigger.
I don’t know whether he/she was in fear for his life, being on the other side of a barricaded door with three or four other officers when no ones on the other side of the door was shown to have weapons and to me, didn’t look like they were coming through the broken glass. In fact it looked like there was at least one or two at the front of the line that were getting the glass breakers to stop and back off.

All of the “say his name” deaths started with stupidity. Some definitely should not have happened and there was reason for outrage, but the others were brought on by themselves and the police and the communities in those cases didn’t deserve the violence and murders that followed!

Does anyone think we’ll get the name of the person who killed the Air Force vet?
Will he face any discipline?
I’ll bet the city doesn’t burn and cops won’t be murdered because of this young lady’s killing!

 

[Kutnupe14]

If they were defending the scum (pardon me, politicians) from death or serious bodily harm, maybe shooting would be justified, but I don't think what went down shows what happened as justified. How many police were seriously injured by the protestors? I agree there's a line, I'm just not sure a lethal shooting was the appropriate response. Where were the rubber bullets, tear gas and other non-lethal methods used during cities being freaking burnt down all summer?

Now this I can work with. Yes, where were all those other tools used during the previous protest. That woman might be alive today if those methods had been employed against her. And that's the problem. With the protest in June, the powers that be were well aware of what was coming, and were ready. In this case, they were also well aware. It wasn't a secret. So why were those doing the protecting prepared? Find out who dropped the ball, and you have a place to lay blame.... but I caution you, I'm betting the answer isn't what many will like.

 

[JettaKnight]

If they were defending the scum (pardon me, politicians) from death or serious bodily harm, maybe shooting would be justified, but I don't think what went down shows what happened as justified. How many police were seriously injured by the protestors? I agree there's a line, I'm just not sure a lethal shooting was the appropriate response. Where were the rubber bullets, tear gas and other non-lethal methods used during cities being freaking burnt down all summer?

Left in the cabinets under order of the President?

 

[wtburnette]

Now this I can work with. Yes, where were all those other tools used during the previous protest. That woman might be alive today if those methods had been employed against her. And that's the problem. With the protest in June, the powers that be were well aware of what was coming, and were ready. In this case, they were also well aware. It wasn't a secret. So why were those doing the protecting prepared? Find out who dropped the ball, and you have a place to lay blame.... but I caution you, I'm betting the answer isn't what many will like.

The truth is often inconvenient.

 

[wtburnette]

Left in the cabinets under order of the President?

You have proof of this?

 

[JettaKnight]

So, I'm reading a few posts that claim that Antifa infiltrated the group who stormed Congress. If that's the case, why are we upset over an obvious Antifa agent provocateur breaching security and getting capped in the process?

I'm sure someone will mention her military service as proof that's she's not ANTIFA.

But yeah, I read that here, too - ANTIFA false flag operation.

In order to justify that, then you've got to accept that these peaceful patriots became a mob that followed the lead of ANTIFA. Which is impossible, because patriots are never sheep, and follow no one's lead...

There's a lot of assumptions and biases that you have to get around to leap that chasm.

 

[JettaKnight]

You have proof of this?

The truth is often inconvenient.


I had heard rumors that Trump was holding off on calling in the guard. We'll see what comes out of all this.

 

[Dirtebiker]

"Other than?" A mob of people broke into the Capitol while a joint session of Congress was in the process of confirming the next president of the United States. That act interrupted a Constitutionally mandated process. Several officers injured, 1 person KIA, 3 more involved died from, assumedly reasons related to their attendance. Windows and doors broken, offices ransacked, and a variety of other damage and disruption.

I’m pretty sure the three others died because of their health, not because they attended a rally!
How could their “attendance “ kill them?

 

[Route 45]

It's likely pointless to discuss whether the shooting of Ashli Babbitt, a possible agent provocateur, was justified or not without knowing exactly where in the lines of defense/perimeter this occurred in the building, the availability of less-lethal methods to the officers charged with securing the area, and the standard operating procedure for defending the building or orders given to the officers regarding use of force by those in charge.

However, I'm quite sure that if this had been any other group storming our Capitol (pick your own preferred enemy), most of INGO would have been screaming that they should have been mowed down with miniguns before they broke the first window, to save the Republic.

 

[wtburnette]

The truth is often inconvenient.


I had heard rumors that Trump was holding off on calling in the guard. We'll see what comes out of all this.

Agreed that truth is often inconvenient. If you have proof that Trump ordered it post it. If he ordered it than he's at least partially to blame, even though I support him as President and haven't wavered from that.

 

[drillsgt]

Fixed

No, not really.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I agree completely!
I’m not so sure however that her stupidity is what got her killed. I think (and MAYBE we’ll find out later, but I’m not holding my breath.) it was more about the security officer (whoever it was) was too quick on the trigger.
I don’t know whether he/she was in fear for his life, being on the other side of a barricaded door with three or four other officers when no ones on the other side of the door was shown to have weapons and to me, didn’t look like they were coming through the broken glass. In fact it looked like there was at least one or two at the front of the line that were getting the glass breakers to stop and back off.

All of the “say his name” deaths started with stupidity. Some definitely should not have happened and there was reason for outrage, but the others were brought on by themselves and the police and the communities in those cases didn’t deserve the violence and murders that followed!

Does anyone think we’ll get the name of the person who killed the Air Force vet?
Will he face any discipline?
I’ll bet the city doesn’t burn and cops won’t be murdered because of this young lady’s killing!

Debatable. You're probably smart enough not to enter the Capitol, standby while a door is broken, and then try to jump through the gap while an armed officer is on the other side. I also bet you're reasonable. We can Monday morning QB, but most of use haven't been in that position. A smattering of officers tasked to defend the people and property at the capitol encounter tens of thousands of people angry about an election. They've breached the building, and are running around. Is it reasonable for an officer to be in fear for HIS safety, as well as those he is tasked to protect?
That is major (at least for me) difference between this and the "say his/her name" situations. What is the threat and who is being threatened.

 

[wtburnette]

It's likely pointless to discuss whether the shooting of Ashli Babbitt, a possible agent provocateur, was justified or not without knowing exactly where in the lines of defense/perimeter this occurred in the building, the availability of less-lethal methods to the officers charged with securing the area, and the standard operating procedure for defending the building or orders given to the officers regarding use of force by those in charge.

However, I'm quite sure that if this had been any other group storming our Capitol (pick your own preferred enemy), most of INGO would have been screaming that they should have been mowed down with miniguns before they broke the first window, to save the Republic.

There's a very big difference in the protestors. Nothing in yesterday's protest showed the level of violence demonstrated for most of the year by Antifa, BLM and other progressive/communist organizations. Yes, if either of those had broken in I would have loved to have seen them mown down, if they perpetrated violence, which they would have done I have no doubt.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Aside from the deceased not being a minor. There is plenty of justification in shooting a person who breaks a window, and is in the process of jumping through it, to potentially interrupt a legislative session.

Was she jumping through the window? The video I saw looked like she was a couple feet away from the window, I could be wrong.

Also pictures I saw showed at least three men with fingers ON triggers. What the hell!?

 

[foszoe]

There's a very big difference in the protestors. Nothing in yesterday's protest showed the level of violence demonstrated for most of the year by Antifa, BLM and other progressive/communist organizations. Yes, if either of those had broken in I would have loved to have seen them mown down, if they perpetrated violence, which they would have done I have no doubt.

It's only day one. Do we really believe its all over and yesterday was a flash in the pan?

Several BLM protests were also calm .... until it got dark.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I’m pretty sure the three others died because of their health, not because they attended a rally!
How could their “attendance “ kill them?

First, I'm not saying any of the other 3 people died because they were involved in shenanigans. They could have just been good people attending a pro-Trump rally.... and then things got sideways. If your ticker ain't good, and you're thrust in a high stress situation, it might not be so good a thing.
You'd have to convince me that those 3 people would've died, around the exact same time that they did, if they had not otherwise been at the rally, before I'd say it wasn't related to their attendance.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Was she jumping through the window? The video I saw looked like she was a couple feet away from the window, I could be wrong.

Also pictures I saw showed at least three men with fingers ON triggers. What the hell!?

She was jumping through the window, gets shot, and falls back. You can see it in the video.

 

[wtburnette]

It's only day one. Do we really believe its all over and yesterday was a flash in the pan?

Several BLM protests were also calm .... until it got dark.

I'm only speaking of events leading up to the death of the lady in question. There was no violence done to the level of most of the protests over the summer.