Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[Keith_Indy]

Self-defense claims from lawyer... based on above sequence of events, Dolloff had tunnel vision and didn't line up his sights with his intended target. Dolloff may think he shot the right person.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/...g-what-he-was-supposed-to-be-doing-there.html

Doug Richards, who said he is representing Dolloff’s family, said the man who was shot reached into his shirt which made Dolloff fear for his safety, leading him to shoot. He said images of the scene from The Denver Post, which first reported his comments, show that Dolloff put his body between the man and the reporter from KUSA-TV he was working to protect.

 

[BugI02]

The prosecutor could have a field day with that:
"He struck you with an open left hand, and for the time directly preceding that he had a can of mace in his right hand. At no time did the deceased use the can of mace on you, make any furtive gestures, or attempt to replace the can of mace with a firearm. What exactly made you think that he was in the process of reaching for a firearm? Had you actually completed the required training for security in the state of Colorado, would that have better equipped you to resolve this situation without discharging your firearm, or assisted you in recognizing that the deceased was not in the process of retrieving a firearm?"

I don't think a pro would have gone for a headshot, either, especially in an area crowded with people

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is mace a deadly weapon? If it is now “Ok” to shoot people who use mace there is going to be a lot of dead people shortly.

You don’t need to be presented with a deadly weapon to employ deadly force.
Two questions:
Can you draw down on a person who has just slapped you?
Can you use a firearm to prevent a person deploying an agent meant to hinder your ability to defend yourself?

 

[Alpo]

[video]https://twitter.com/i/status/1315826875759915009[/video]

The agitator and news producer were conspiring to incite violence. I'd certainly encourage family member of the hatter to bring a wrongful death suit against the station owners.

 

[NKBJ]

From past experiences of shoveling out many a horse stall I just don't think we're getting to the bottom of this until long after the trial. If anybody investigates it enough to find out what really happened.

 

[jamil]

From past experiences of shoveling out many a horse stall I just don't think we're getting to the bottom of this until long after the trial. If anybody investigates it enough to find out what really happened.

I tend to agree. I don't think there is anyone who has a stake in this, that really wants to get to the truth of what happened and who is responsible. I mean. Some people look at one picture and exonerate the shooter. Obviously no further work is necessary there. If the shooter is charged with murder, and none of the things that we've talked about are true--no collaboration with far leftists, no political axes to grind, just a poor schmuck trying to eek out a living protecting people. If that ends up being the truth, we might get to that, because that's the narrative that would exonerate the shooter. I'm not confident the prosecution is eager to find the truth. It takes some interested party who has a stake in knowing the truth for it to come out in something like this and I just don't think that's going to happen.

 

[OakRiver]

Self-defense claims from lawyer... based on above sequence of events, Dolloff had tunnel vision and didn't line up his sights with his intended target. Dolloff may think he shot the right person.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/...g-what-he-was-supposed-to-be-doing-there.html

That doesn't seem to line up with the images published to date, but if the lawyer is saying Dolloff shot the wrong person, is he hoping for negligent homicide?

 

[Leadeye]

Maybe some of this will end up on the news organization. Depending on the leadership in charge of the investigation they may not push it, either way I think Alpo is correct about a civil case coming.

 

[jamil]

I doubt the second target theory. These are two dimensional images reflecting 3 dimensional space. You can’t say definitively that his eyes weren’t on the victim when he fired just from those images.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I doubt the second target theory. These are two dimensional images reflecting 3 dimensional space. You can’t say definitively that his eyes weren’t on the victim when he fired just from those images.

It looked to me like he was just turning his head to the side to avoid the bear spray.

 

[Mikey1911]

Looking at Kut’s post #623, I’m suddenly reminded of a long-ago scene from “Hawaii Five-O”, where Danny’s shooting of a young boy is under investigation.

I had to look up the scene for the exact quote:

Danny: He was just a boy, Steve! A boy! He probably never even had to shave!

Steve: You think it’s easier to kill a grown man? You think the next one will be easier than this one?? God help you if you do!
(pause)
It better hurt every time! It had better tear your guts out every time you pull that gun, whether you use it or not! You learn to live with it, but don’t get used to it!

Sure, it was only TV—but it seems logical for anyone carrying that they can’t be over-anxious to draw their weapon, because everything from a negligent discharge to a good shoot now becomes possible.

 

[NKBJ]

Well said sir. Even as much as I disliked Stoney Burke, well said.

 

[Ark]

Is mace a deadly weapon? If it is now “Ok” to shoot people who use mace there is going to be a lot of dead people shortly.

For real, though, the antifa folks should be careful about pushing this interpretation or they're going to start catching bullets back for macing people on a daily basis.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Maybe some of this will end up on the news organization. Depending on the leadership in charge of the investigation they may not push it, either way I think Alpo is correct about a civil case coming.

When “Isn’t” there a civil case, when the person being sued has deep pockets?

 

[Keith_Indy]

I doubt the second target theory. These are two dimensional images reflecting 3 dimensional space. You can’t say definitively that his eyes weren’t on the victim when he fired just from those images.

I've been an amateur photographer for 40 years, I stated my opinion about what it appears to me.

His head and body language look to me like he's looking past Keltner at something else.

 

[jamil]

Looking at Kut’s post #623, I’m suddenly reminded of a long-ago scene from “Hawaii Five-O”, where Danny’s shooting of a young boy is under investigation.

I had to look up the scene for the exact quote:

Danny: He was just a boy, Steve! A boy! He probably never even had to shave!

Steve: You think it’s easier to kill a grown man? You think the next one will be easier than this one?? God help you if you do!
(pause)
It better hurt every time! It had better tear your guts out every time you pull that gun, whether you use it or not! You learn to live with it, but don’t get used to it!

Sure, it was only TV—but it seems logical for anyone carrying that they can’t be over-anxious to draw their weapon, because everything from a negligent discharge to a good shoot now becomes possible.

I think it was Danno.

 

[rob63]

It's all very difficult to tell from the camera angles, but I don't think the orange mace was actually aimed at the shooter. It looks to me like the deceased is looking at and aiming the mace at the guy in the blue shirt to the right of the shooter. If I am correct, it further hurts the "self-defense" claim.

 

[Mikey1911]

I think it was Danno.

Only when Steve tells him, “Book ‘em . . . Murder One”.

 

[Keith_Indy]

CYA alert, this is a stage 5 CYA alert...

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/13/9news-protest-shooting-matthew-dolloff/

Staff at Denver’s 9News did not know a security guard protecting their journalists at protests over the weekend was armed until the guard opened fire and killed a protester, the station announced Tuesday.


“As stated yesterday, 9NEWS does not contract directly with individual security personnel. 9NEWS contracted with Pinkerton and had directed that security guards accompanying our personnel not be armed,” Mark Cornetta, president and general manager of the station, said in a statement. “None of 9NEWS’ crew accompanied by Mr. Dolloff on Saturday were aware that he was armed.”


Matthew Robert Dolloff, 30, is suspected of fatally shooting Lee Keltner, a 49-year-old participant in a “Patriot Rally” on Saturday. Denver police on Tuesday unsealed the affidavit for Dolloff’s arrest, which provided the most complete timeline of events from law enforcement thus far.

I'm guessing video evidence proves the last line of the following quote.

He's been charged with 1st degree murder.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/13/matthew-dolloff-lee-keltner-shooting-death-protest-affidavit/

According to the affidavit, review of the video shows that Dolloff became engaged in an altercation with Keltner while he was arguing with the other protester. Keltner was holding a can of OC spray, also known as oleoresin capsicum spray or pepper spray, at the time.


That’s when Keltner and Dolloff faced each other, about 3:36 p.m., and Keltner struck Dolloff on the side of the head with an open hand. Dolloff is seen drawing a handgun from his waistband, aiming at Keltner and shooting once.

Keltner discharged his OC spray as he collapsed to the ground.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Most relevant section from the affidavit:

Review of the video and still images show ______ 01/__/1995 and Matthew DOLOFF 03/07/1990 become engaged in an altercation with Lee KELTNER while he is arguing with ___________. At this time Lee KELTNER is observed holding a can of OC spray. At approximately 3:36 ___________ face each other and Mr. KELTNER strikes Mr DOLOFF in the side of the head with an open hand. Mr DOLOFF is then observed drawing a handgun from his waistband, aiming at lee KELTNER and shooting once, striking Mr. KELTNER, as Mr KELTNER discharges his OC spray. Mr KELTNER collapsed to the ground.

Additional video of the argument. KELTNER was going after the producer who does not have a PRESS jacket or anything, and DOLOFF who does not have anything saying SECURITY. So likely KELTNER thought they were ANTIFA "press" and didn't want to be on video.

Notice the guy in the red shirt is telling people off camera to get their guy to stand down. I believe he's talking to the photographer, producer and DOLOFF.

[video=youtube_share;4D6Ad18lFYg]https://youtu.be/4D6Ad18lFYg[/video]