Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[Kutnupe14]

Has it occurred to you that you misinterpreted what ha's saying.

Honestly no. I read it again, and am still in the same place. What did he mean if it wasn't what I thought?

 

[Sylvain]

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Kaepernick said he will not stand for a flag and country that "oppresses people of color".

Trump said maybe they should fire the SOB's if they don't respect the flag and country.

SOB's proceed to come out of the woodwork and kneel in defiance.

Flag and country loving fans boycott the SOB's.

Some flag and country loving folks are fine wherever those players decide to kneel or stand though.

There's no right or wrong side.People have the right to kneel.People have the right to be offended by the kneeling.
Neither side is wrong and neither side hate the flag and country.

Just because someone doesn't boycott the NFL over this "issue" (not that it's an actual issue to me) doesn't mean they hate the country.
And because you decide to boycott the NFL and you're offended by the whole thing doesn't mean you hate the country either.

You can also be offended by their action and still support their freedom of speech.
I hate to see neo-nazi rallies, and I'm offended by people waving Nazi flags, but I support their freedom of speech and their right to show they're morons.

 

[jamil]

Honestly no. I read it again, and am still in the same place. What did he mean if it wasn't what I thought?

I took it that "points" refers to winning a technical argument, not that you're trying to score points with people.

 

[jamil]

You get it.... but you are French, and a lot of French philosophy is (or rather used to be) evident the founding ideals that Americans used to cherish. Now we simply want to force people not to do things because we're offended.

You get it because you're "you" with your point of view. They get what they get for much the same reason. You both don't get the other because you think the other side is wrong from your perspective. Well. They think you're wrong from theirs.

 

[Liberty1916]

And this point simply runs us in circles. The players, and those that support them do not view the protests as disrespecting the flag.

Which is demonstrably false.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game.

 

[Liberty1916]

They have total freedom of speech and that's what's beautiful about America.
Instead of getting offended people should be proud of that freedom.

I would respectfully submit that you don't understand what our 1A freedom of speech rights actually mean.

 

[jamil]

I would respectfully submit that you don't understand what our 1A freedom of speech rights actually mean.

Why. It's a valid point of view. It is related to the difference between seeing the cup half empty and seeing it half full. And it's a perspective from someone who doesn't have those rights. I think he understands it quite well.

 

[KLB]

Some flag and country loving folks are fine wherever those players decide to kneel or stand though.

There's no right or wrong side.People have the right to kneel.People have the right to be offended by the kneeling.
Neither side is wrong and neither side hate the flag and country.

Just because someone doesn't boycott the NFL over this "issue" (not that it's an actual issue to me) doesn't mean they hate the country.
And because you decide to boycott the NFL and you're offended by the whole thing doesn't mean you hate the country either.

You can also be offended by their action and still support their freedom of speech.
I hate to see neo-nazi rallies, and I'm offended by people waving Nazi flags, but I support their freedom of speech and their right to show they're morons.

My take is this. The issue is with all of this from the beginning was that the media decided to blow this story up and make a huge deal out of it. No one would give a about Kaepernick kneeling during the National Anthem, because almost no one would have even known he was doing it if the media hadn't jumped all over the story and talked about it incessantly. The rest of this mess has just grown out of that initial feeding frenzy.

 

[Liberty1916]

Why. It's a valid point of view. It is related to the difference between seeing the cup half empty and seeing it half full. And it's a perspective from someone who doesn't have those rights. I think he understands it quite well.

Because saying we shouldn't be offended when people engage in "free speech" is ridiculous, and an entire world of difference from our right to be free from government interference. I can laud the fact that the players aren't being thrown in jail for spitting on the flag and still be offended at what they say. The two things simply aren't the same and in my opinion show a lack of understanding about what our 1A rights actually mean.

 

[jamil]

Because saying we shouldn't be offended when people engage in "free speech" is ridiculous, and an entire world of difference from our right to be free from government interference. I can laud the fact that the players aren't being thrown in jail for spitting on the flag and still be offended at what they say. The two things simply aren't the same and in my opinion show a lack of understanding about what our 1A rights actually mean.

he's not saying there should be a law against being offended. But rather in being greatful for the right, why not spend your offence elswhere. It doesn't show lack of understanding. It shows a different perspective.

 

[BugI02]

My statement needs no clarification. What I said was an accurate answer to your question and I have never said anything to the contrary. You asked if the people who feel offended know why. When I answered that the ones I had spoken to did you asked what the reason was. I never said ALL of the veterans or ALL of the active duty members or ALL of the rest of the citizens. So please quit trying to score points and read what is posted rather than what you want to see.

Likewise, BA, I find it ... curious ... that the poster belaboring the point that you don't speak for all the vets, active service members, and millions of ordinary Americans you mention, conducts himself as if he speaks for all the protesters - at least on this board

 

[DRob]

Bottom line for me is that this whole thing has served to accelerate the NFL's swirl down the drain. Their revenue is down. Their fans are abandoning them to the point that they are paying rebates to TV sponsors who aren't getting the exposure their contracts guarantee. This has been going on since late 2016 but, recently, the TV market has dropped to the lowest levels ever. Three weeks ago, Colts tickets were available on Stub Hub for $10. The NFL is killing itself with the unwitting assistance of players who haven't enough sense to take their protest somewhere it will not harm the cash cow. Keep it up NFL. I already don't miss you!

 

[Sylvain]

Because saying we shouldn't be offended when people engage in "free speech" is ridiculous, and an entire world of difference from our right to be free from government interference. I can laud the fact that the players aren't being thrown in jail for spitting on the flag and still be offended at what they say. The two things simply aren't the same and in my opinion show a lack of understanding about what our 1A rights actually mean.

It's not what I have said (or tried to say).
You have the right to be offended and I understand people like BA who has a vet gets offended by what he thinks is a lack of respect towards the flag and country.

You can respect people's right to free speech and still get offended by what they're saying or doing.
It's why I mentioned neo-nazi rallies.I hate their views but still support their right to free speech.

I support your right to be offended as I support the player's right to kneel.

Kut mentioned French philosophers and their influence on the first amendment, so let me quote Voltaire who said "I do not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

That's what veterans have done.They served to give people a total right to free speech even if they don't agree with their ideas, even if they find their actions offensive.

If you're a veteran you fought for those people's right to kneel even tough you find it offensive that they kneel during the national anthem.
That's a beautiful and noble thing.

 

[Liberty1916]

It's not what I have said (or tried to say).
You have the right to be offended and I understand people like BA who has a vet gets offended by what he thinks is a lack of respect towards the flag and country.

You can respect people's right to free speech and still get offended by what they're saying or doing.
It's why I mentioned neo-nazi rallies.I hate their views but still support their right to free speech.

I support your right to be offended as I support the player's right to kneel.

Kut mentioned French philosophers and their influence on the first amendment, so let me quote Voltaire who said "I do not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

That's what veterans have done.They served to give people a total right to free speech even if they don't agree with their ideas, even if they find their actions offensive.

If you're a veteran you fought for those people's right to kneel even tough you find it offensive that they kneel during the national anthem.
That's a beautiful and noble thing.

Thanks for explaining in more detail and as I said, I was trying to be respectful in disagreeing with you. And yes, I'm a veteran. I'm not advocating that government interfere with their protests. But I do think it's important to understand that people have a right to be offended and a right to say whatever they want about the protestors in return, including boycotting the games.

 

[Sylvain]

Thanks for explaining in more detail and as I said, I was trying to be respectful in disagreeing with you. And yes, I'm a veteran. I'm not advocating that government interfere with their protests. But I do think it's important to understand that people have a right to be offended and a right to say whatever they want about the protestors in return, including boycotting the games.

I agree with that 100%.
Don't go to the games if you think it's offensive.

 

[actaeon277]

On Designated Survivor, there was some young white girl explaining to an older black man, that had lived through the protests of the 60's, about racism and racial sensitivities. I found it humorous.

That's cause the youth has been raised to think they know everything. They just need tp properly "explain" it, and all the unicorns can come out again.

 

[actaeon277]

I agree with that 100%.
Don't go to the games if you think it's offensive.

That is what is happening.

 

[Birds Away]

Honestly no. I read it again, and am still in the same place. What did he mean if it wasn't what I thought?

You get hung up on the "points" reference and completely ignore the rest. That's pretty typical.

 

[Birds Away]

It's not what I have said (or tried to say).
You have the right to be offended and I understand people like BA who has a vet gets offended by what he thinks is a lack of respect towards the flag and country.

You can respect people's right to free speech and still get offended by what they're saying or doing.
It's why I mentioned neo-nazi rallies.I hate their views but still support their right to free speech.

I support your right to be offended as I support the player's right to kneel.

Kut mentioned French philosophers and their influence on the first amendment, so let me quote Voltaire who said "I do not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

That's what veterans have done.They served to give people a total right to free speech even if they don't agree with their ideas, even if they find their actions offensive.

If you're a veteran you fought for those people's right to kneel even tough you find it offensive that they kneel during the national anthem.
That's a beautiful and noble thing.

A couple of points. I never said I was offended. I said I know people who are. Secondly, I have stated this very point a couple of times earlier in this thread. The right to peacefully protest is the fruit of the labors of so many who gave their lives for that flag. So, no, I'm not offended. I am, however, disappointed in these spoiled, pampered children who can't find a better way to articulate their grievance. Assaulting what many of their fellow citizens hold dear is a very selfish way to get attention or make their point. I'm sure there is not any other possible way to do the same thing without alienating a large portion of society against their position before they even had a chance to articulate it. They meant to cause outrage and offense and they have succeeded.

 

[Sylvain]

A couple of points. I never said I was offended. I said I know people who are. Secondly, I have stated this very point a couple of times earlier in this thread. The right to peacefully protest is the fruit of the labors of so many who gave their lives for that flag. So, no, I'm not offended. I am, however, disappointed in these spoiled, pampered children who can't find a better way to articulate their grievance. Assaulting what many of their fellow citizens hold dear is a very selfish way to get attention or make their point. I'm sure there is not any other possible way to do the same thing without alienating a large portion of society against their position before they even had a chance to articulate it. They meant to cause outrage and offense and they have succeeded.

Thanks for the clarification BA.

And yes we wouldn't have those rights without the sacrifice of those vets.