Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[Birds Away]

They don't seem to know why they're offended, that's for sure.

Funny, the ones I have spoken to seem to know exactly why they're offended.

 

[Liberty1916]

So this NFL protest thing is just a protest against the police and it's not related to sport?

I haven't followed the whole story but I'm still commenting about it as a true INGOer.
I assumed it was just related to the NFL and how the people kneeling where protesting the fact that they are not paid as much as others in the NFL.
Presumably based on the color of their skin.

I just heard about it because some folks got offended by the kneeling during the national anthem.
And I'm not sure those offended people even know why those players were kneeling in the first place.
Did they even all kneeled for the same reasons?

Kaepernick said he will not stand for a flag and country that "oppresses people of color".

Trump said maybe they should fire the SOB's if they don't respect the flag and country.

SOB's proceed to come out of the woodwork and kneel in defiance.

Flag and country loving fans boycott the SOB's.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Funny, the ones I have spoken to seem to know exactly why they're offended.

Which is?

 

[KLB]

It appears some folks won't be watching the NFL anytime soon, as apparently the league has decided not to force players to stand. Probably a good idea, for the long run.

I wonder if they had any actual recourse with the CBA.

This is bad for them and the networks. The networks are apparently all not showing the Anthem, instead going to commercials. They will need to stop talking about it on their news programs as well though if they want to make any headway against this. Their best bet is to hope people forget about it.

 

[jamil]

It appears some folks won't be watching the NFL anytime soon, as apparently the league has decided not to force players to stand. Probably a good idea, for the long run.

People keep making more of things than are real. The NFL first had a sort of hands off approach which made the patriotic types mad and they stopped watching the games.

So then the NFL ****-canned the kneeling so that people would watch the games. Then the other side threw a fit and said insane things like the NFL is making slaves--YES, THEY SAID the NFL brought back SLAVERY! Because the very well paid athletes are now just like slaves because the NFL started enforcing a policy that predated all of this nonsense. That's just not convincing. I will turn that off all day long.

So what would make both sides happy? Is there a sane middle in all of this that is actually reachable? Given the large numbers on the people joining the fringes, I doubt it.

Probably what would end all this, is for the protestors to find a less offensive way to protest, AND for them to find a better articulated, more precise grievance than an unreachable goal "to bring awareness to the institutional oppression of PoC". So can the protestors find a less offensive way to protest? Can they find a more realistic thing to protest? Given the hyperbole, I think that's an ask beyond the ideologues' capability.

I do side with the kneelers to the exact extent to which there is still a problem with individuals being oppressed by individuals in positions of power. No liberty loving person should stand for that. However, standing for the national anthem isn't the same as standing for oppression of people because of their race, just because some ideologues decided to make that their protest. So that's why I think the solution is what I said it needs to be, and why it is the protestors who need to change how they're protesting.

 

[Alpo]

Solution: Draft all players through the Selective Service System before they are eligible for the NFL draft.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If it goes on long enough the Kardashians will do something stupid to distract people from it and they will return to rooting for the NFL. The question is; can the NFL stand the revenue loss until the next SQUIRREL!!!

Completely. It's all about markets. Chicago, Miami, New York, St Louis, Philly, San Fran, etc etc. We all know big cities are liberal markets, and 70% of league talent may have sympathies with the protests. Not counting people who may disagree with the protest, but simply have to have their NFL "fix" and won't tune out, it seems like a questionable decision to alienate those groups.

 

[jamil]

They don't seem to know why they're offended, that's for sure.

Some of those offended have probably overstated their offense, but they have told you why they're offended.

 

[Kutnupe14]

People keep making more of things than are real. The NFL first had a sort of hands off approach which made the patriotic types mad and they stopped watching the games.

So then the NFL ****-canned the kneeling so that people would watch the games. Then the other side threw a fit and said insane things like the NFL is making slaves--YES, THEY SAID the NFL brought back SLAVERY! Because the very well paid athletes are now just like slaves because the NFL started enforcing a policy that predated all of this nonsense. That's just not convincing. I will turn that off all day long.

So what would make both sides happy? Is there a sane middle in all of this that is actually reachable? Given the large numbers on the people joining the fringes, I doubt it.

Probably what would end all this, is for the protestors to find a less offensive way to protest, AND for them to find a better articulated, more precise grievance than an unreachable goal "to bring awareness to the institutional oppression of PoC". So can the protestors find a less offensive way to protest? Can they find a more realistic thing to protest? Given the hyperbole, I think that's an ask beyond the ideologues' capability.

I do side with the kneelers to the exact extent to which there is still a problem with individuals being oppressed by individuals in positions of power. No liberty loving person should stand for that. However, standing for the national anthem isn't the same as standing for oppression of people because of their race, just because some ideologues decided to make that their protest. So that's why I think the solution is what I said it needs to be, and why it is the protestors who need to change how they're protesting.

NFL pre-2009?

Edit: and GOV not feeding the NFL money to put on patriotic displays?

 

[jamil]

Completely. It's all about markets. Chicago, Miami, New York, St Louis, Philly, San Fran, etc etc. We all know big cities are liberal markets, and 70% of league talent may have sympathies with the protests. Not counting people who may disagree with the protest, but simply have to have their NFL "fix" and won't tune out, it seems like a questionable decision to alienate those groups.

Dude. They're saying **** like IT'S SLAVERY BROUGHT BACK!

The NFL can't fix this. The fringes are too big. Someone's going to have to change their stance a bit, and I think that needs to be the protestors. I explained why that is above.

 

[Birds Away]

Which is?

As you well know they are offended that someone would publically disrespect the flag and the anthem. This is seen by veterans, active service members and tens of millions of other Americans as a direct insult to all those who have given their lives for those colors. Whether you like it or not that is how they feel.

 

[jamil]

NFL pre-2009?

Edit: and GOV not feeding the NFL money to put on patriotic displays?

That's not going to fix this situation. The crux of this situation is the cultural war fought between the fringes.

 

[jamil]

Solution: Draft all players through the Selective Service System before they are eligible for the NFL draft.

Not that it's all that practical but I think that would help at least one side understand the other side better.

 

[Liberty1916]

As you well know they are offended that someone would publically disrespect the flag and the anthem. This is seen by veterans, active service members and tens of millions of other Americans as a direct insult to all those who have given their lives for those colors. Whether you like it or not that is how they feel.

The problem is, one side thinks kneeling isn't disrespectful and that it's the offended person's problem if they took it that way. So here we are, arguing back and forth.

 

[Kutnupe14]

As you well know they are offended that someone would publically disrespect the flag and the anthem. This is seen by veterans, active service members and tens of millions of other Americans as a direct insult to all those who have given their lives for those colors. Whether you like it or not that is how they feel.

And this point simply runs us in circles. The players, and those that support them do not view the protests as disrespecting the flag. Further, you cited that "veterans, active service members" see this as an insult. I'll clarify your statement, in that you aren't speaking of ALL, just some of the folks you mentioned. There are plenty of "vets, active service members, and tens of millions of [other] Americans" that don't view these protests as as a direct insult. And whether you like it or not, that's how they feel.

 

[Sylvain]

They don't seem to know why they're offended, that's for sure.

I just don't get why it's such a big deal anyway.
Maybe it's because I'm not American and don't care about the NFL, or what people think and do as long as they don't infringe on other people's rights?

As long as the players who decide to kneel don't force others to kneel they can do whatever they want.
Sure people have the right to be offended (apparently to some not standing during the national anthem is offensive) just like people have the right to do whatever they want during the anthem.
They could start breakdancing and sing hakuna matata during the national anthem for all I care.
They have total freedom of speech and that's what's beautiful about America.
Instead of getting offended people should be proud of that freedom.
In some countries you go to jail or get shot if you do something that is judged to be disrespectful towards the government/party in power.

Regardless of what I think is an offensive behaviour I support people's rigth to act however they want.
It's the same with flag burning, I personally don't find it very tasteful and wouldn't burn a flag in protest but if my neighbor wants to burn a flag (of any country) then I'm all for it if he paid for it.
Just don't try to burn a flag that I personally own or that is publicly displayed.

 

[Birds Away]

And this point simply runs us in circles. The players, and those that support them do not view the protests as disrespecting the flag. Further, you cited that "veterans, active service members" see this as an insult. I'll clarify your statement, in that you aren't speaking of ALL, just some of the folks you mentioned. There are plenty of "vets, active service members, and tens of millions of [other] Americans" that don't view these protests as as a direct insult. And whether you like it or not, that's how they feel.

My statement needs no clarification. What I said was an accurate answer to your question and I have never said anything to the contrary. You asked if the people who feel offended know why. When I answered that the ones I had spoken to did you asked what the reason was. I never said ALL of the veterans or ALL of the active duty members or ALL of the rest of the citizens. So please quit trying to score points and read what is posted rather than what you want to see.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I just don't get why it's such a big deal anyway.
Maybe it's because I'm not American and don't care about the NFL, or what people think and do as long as they don't infringe on other people's rights?

As long as the players who decide to kneel don't force others to kneel they can do whatever they want.
Sure people have the right to be offended (apparently to some not standing during the national anthem is offensive) just like people have the right to do whatever they want during the anthem.
They could start breakdancing and sing hakuna matata during the national anthem for all I care.
They have total freedom of speech and that's what's beautiful about America.
Instead of getting offended people should be proud of that freedom.
In some countries you go to jail or get shot if you do something that is judged to be disrespectful towards the government/party in power.

Regardless of what I think is an offensive behaviour I support people's rigth to act however they want.
It's the same with flag burning, I personally don't find it very tasteful and wouldn't burn a flag in protest but if my neighbor wants to burn a flag (of any country) then I'm all for it if he paid for it.
Just don't try to burn a flag that I personally own or that is publicly displayed.

You get it.... but you are French, and a lot of French philosophy is (or rather used to be) evident the founding ideals that Americans used to cherish. Now we simply want to force people not to do things because we're offended.

 

[Kutnupe14]

My statement needs no clarification. What I said was an accurate answer to your question and I have never said anything to the contrary. You asked if the people who feel offended know why. When I answered that the ones I had spoken to did you asked what the reason was. I never said ALL of the veterans or ALL of the active duty members or ALL of the rest of the citizens. So please quit trying to score points and read what is posted rather than what you want to see.

LOL. Seriously BA, who am I going to score points with?

 

[jamil]

LOL. Seriously BA, who am I going to score points with?

Has it occurred to you that you misinterpreted what ha's saying.