School me on militias....

[IndyDave1776]

He got the legal definition, which is part of what he asked, and doesn't specify, because it's ALL of us

It would seem that Mr. 140 is doing a fine job of demonstrating that possession of a tool does not grant proficiency in using it.

 

[indiucky]

I like Militia Etheridge even though I know it wasn't me she was wanting to come to her window....

 

[OakRiver]

Except it's not. I'm mid-50s, so too old by Fed and IN state law. Which would apply in a disaster requiring a militia? IMHO, the IN Nat Guard can be called out without permission of the Fed, but can the Fed order them to step down?

If I showed up for muster, would I be turned away because of my age and disability (neither of which prevents me - usually - from putting suppressive fire for the younger guys)?

Doesn't Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution render your concern moot in any event? The provision that "Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State." does not have any qualifier on age.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Doesn't Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution render your concern moot in any event? The provision that "Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State." does not have any qualifier on age.

Exactly, and also add that no mention whatsoever is made of militia.

 

[KG1]

Nor mention of what particular type of arm is appropriate to bear which is not specifically legally prohibited in defense of self and State. Such as an AR for example which is legal to keep and bear. I would submit that an AR does indeed have a place for defense of self and State.

 

[mammynun]

Except it's not. I'm mid-50s, so too old by Fed and IN state law. Which would apply in a disaster requiring a militia? IMHO, the IN Nat Guard can be called out without permission of the Fed, but can the Fed order them to step down?

If I showed up for muster, would I be turned away because of my age and disability (neither of which prevents me - usually - from putting suppressive fire for the younger guys)?

Nope. You meet the age requirements; as for the rest... let's just say I'm reminded of Montresor from "The cask of Amontillado."

"Indiana Guard Reserve Qualification: You may apply if you are 18 - 65 years of age, are in good health, have no felony conviction or pending criminal charges, have never been convicted of desertion or classified as disloyal. Active members of the US Armed Forces or Reserve are not eligible for membership in the Indiana Guard Reserve. Veterans of any branch of the Uniformed Services, with service verified by DD 214 (Statement of Military Service), are welcome.u are 18 - 65 years of age, are in good health, have no felony conviction or pending criminal charges, have never been convicted of desertion or classified as disloyal. Active members of the US Armed Forces or Reserve are not eligible for membership in the Indiana Guard Reserve. Veterans of any branch of the Uniformed Services, with service verified by DD 214 (Statement of Military Service), are welcome."

IGR: Join Us! (Thanks BogWalker!)

 

[BADWOLF]

I am part of an active Indiana state militia OP, if you have any questions regarding how we function please feel free to PM me with any questions you might have..... I can only answer questions as far as how the group I belong to operates & can not speak for any other group.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Hmmm having spent twenty one years of honorable service to my country in the US Army, and now a retired Veteran, I guess I am getting to old to be in the Militia, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."( however, I still am a "people".....................for now anyway.

 

[MohawkSlim]

The concept of a legal entity that would have some form of rights of incorporation and, therefore, protection if/when they come for our guns is very interesting.

I'm all for having a leg to stand on in court and legal challenges (jury box) before a shooting war. But I seriously doubt a 12-person organization, company, group, etc., would have the means to defend itself to the point of overturning the wave that would be confiscation because that end would entail overwhelming public support. We see individuals have victory now (Heller, McDonald, et al) because despite what the media says, there really are a lot of gun owners and people who refuse to give up their rights. We also have pretty good support in congress and SCOTUS.

That's likely to change in our lifetime but one thing that doesn't seem to be changing is the increasing number of gun owners and firearms enthusiasts. We're losing as a culture and lifestyle as we become increasingly urban but the number of guns sold and number of gun owners continues to increase as well. That means we'll have more public support and our "minority group" will continue to flourish and have legal success. Compare/contrast that to the LGBT community that is, maybe, 3% of the population. Look at the overwhelming legal victories they've had lately. People of color, who represent around 30% (with only 13% being black) have legal rights protected too.

There are no definitive numbers on gun owners but ballpark it at just under 1/3 of the population and you'll quickly see your rights aren't in as much jeopardy as you think. Places like California continue to cede their rights to a tyrannical assembly but that's more because they fail to play the political game as opposed to being represented by legally-protected small groups who challenge new laws.

The key to staving off confiscation isn't organizing in small groups seeking out protection, it's working in huge groups to increase public awareness, sway elections, and generally promote the right through exercise and public relations. In short, don't go into hiding.... get vocal!

 

[mammynun]

I am part of an active Indiana state militia OP, if you have any questions regarding how we function please feel free to PM me with any questions you might have..... I can only answer questions as far as how the group I belong to operates & can not speak for any other group.

To be clear, I do not wish to join a militia, I was investigating the possible benefits of forming a legally recognized, well regulated militia for the purposes of thwarting possible judicial reinterpretation and/or legislation affecting my 2A right (i.e. California). At this point, I don't think it's a realistic goal; it would probably be easier to get deputized.

 

[LPMan59]

What is a militia?

a group of people with lots of digicam clothes, chest rigs and guns that run around the woods on weekends. Membership is composed of mostly unemployed/under employed, overweight white guys and undercover law enforcement agents.

 

[mammynun]

The key to staving off confiscation isn't organizing in small groups seeking out protection, it's working in huge groups to increase public awareness, sway elections, and generally promote the right through exercise and public relations. In short, don't go into hiding.... get vocal!

I do, and will continue to do may part in that arena.

As far as a 12 person group goes... what I had in mind was thousands of small (family sized) legal entities of some sort.

 

[BADWOLF]

To be clear, I do not wish to join a militia, I was investigating the possible benefits of forming a legally recognized, well regulated militia for the purposes of thwarting possible judicial reinterpretation and/or legislation affecting my 2A right (i.e. California). At this point, I don't think it's a realistic goal; it would probably be easier to get deputized.

Not looking for you to join..... To be clear, You said you had questions, I thought? Figured I'd probably be in a better position than most on here to answer them for you.....

 

[mammynun]

What is a militia?

a group of people with lots of digicam clothes, chest rigs and guns that run around the woods on weekends. Membership is composed of mostly unemployed/under employed, overweight white guys and undercover law enforcement agents.

I think you're missing my point, which is not to say that I disagree with your characterization.

 

[LPMan59]

I think you're missing my point, which is not to say that I disagree with your characterization.

Point wasn't missed. I just wanted to add a little humor.

 

[mammynun]

The concept of a legal entity that would have some form of rights of incorporation and, therefore, protection if/when they come for our guns is very interesting.

I would derive a great deal of pleasure from securing a loan from the Small Business Association to set it up...
https://www.fnamerica.com/products/collector-series/m249s/

 

[kiddchaos]

So would the existing militias advertise via HAM or other means if the SHTF and they need more folks to join up?
Is there a plan/website somewhere in IN? Just wondering.

 

[BADWOLF]

#1 we don't advertise, we have social media pages and a website but for the most part people find us... And in a SHTF scenario it would be more of who we come across in our travels... And FYI not everyone is welcome at least in my group, but a Indiana LTCH goes along way initially, but we do vetting & background checks on every potential member and even once a member you can be removed from the group if you are convicted of a felony, are a domestic abuser and the like even a misdemeanor conviction can warrant dismissal for things such as theft, intimidation, lying under oath to a court. ***

 

[rhino]

No, not the classic "everyone's a General and we're gonna drink beer and shoot guns in the woods" style of militia... more of a Militia, Inc. or Militia, LLC.

During a 2A discussion I was asked "So, what well regulated militia do you belong to?" Not that I think a well regulated militia has much to do with the 2A as it applies to me, but it did make me wonder "Just what it take to meet the legal definition of a "militia?"

Is there a legal definition? A minimum size? What would be the pros and cons of forming one for the purposes of satisfying any future law and/or SCOTUS ruling? I'm talking immediate family/close friend size... let's say around 12 people max. Make it an S corp or an LLC so that it's on paper with the state () and therefore "official." Bylaws with all the right verbiage about being "well regulated" and providing "common defense." Could it piggyback off an NFA trust, or would it be best to keep them separate?

Would something along these lines be a waste of time, or an obstacle to infringement? How much pay and BAH/BAQ could I pay the militiamen and women ('cause I'm all about diversity and junk) and write off on taxes?

Link to 10 USC 311: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

 

[2A_Tom]

When I read the OP this is what came into my mind (without the quotes) but since most of what i had to say has already been said I will give credit where credit is due. I have edited some and made clear my emphasis or edit in red.

I am a member of the Indiana State Militia, as are you. I am well regulated (supplied with propper equipment and proficient in the use there of. Are you well regulated, or a slacker.

I believe the original intent was for the people to be a well regulated militia in that they had appropriate firearms and the training to use them. Thus the value of the Civilian Marksmanship program. And the NRA.
Must my .02

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason

Webster’s defines Militia as; A military force that is not part of the regular army and is subject to call for in an emergency.
The United States defines the Militia in U.S. Code Title 10>Subtitle A>Part I>Chapter 13 as;
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) The organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) The unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. (Source: United States Code).
I disagree (correct) with (b) (1), of the above which states” The organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia”. The Militia has never been designed, nor intended to be part of the Armed Forces. The National Guard is in fact, a part of our Federal Armed Forces.

Edited for brevity.
For an Indiana specific take on the right to keep and bear arms - Indiana Constitution - Article 1
"Section 32. Arms--Right to bear
Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."

Indiana Constitution says:

ARTICLE 12. Militia

Section 1. Composition

Section 1. A militia shall be provided and shall consist of all persons over the age of seventeen (17) years, except those persons who may be exempted by the laws of the United States or of this state. The militia may be divided into active and inactive classes and consist of such military organizations as may be provided by law

Indiana code 10-16-6-2:
Sec. 2. The militia shall be divided into two (2) classes, the sedentary militia and the national guard, as follows:
(1) The sedentary militia consists of all persons subject to bear arms under the Constitution of the State of Indiana who do not belong to the national guard.
(2) The national guard consists of those able-bodied citizens between the proper ages as established by this article who may be enrolled, organized, and mustered into the service of the state as provided in this article.  The organized militia of the state constitutes and shall be known as the Indiana national guard.
Welcome to the militia, unless of course the term "all persons subject to bear arms under the Constitution of the State of Indiana who do not belong to the National Guard" doesn't apply to you. Age limits don't apply to the sedentary militia.

Nor mention of what particular type of arm is appropriate to bear which is not specifically legally prohibited in defense of self and State. Such as an AR for example which is legal to keep and bear. I would submit that an AR does indeed have a place for defense of self and State.

This is the point when the antis throw in the straw men of battleships, nukes and f-16s.

Tench Coxe The Pennsylvania Gazette Date: February 20, 1788

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

Every terrible implement of the soldier includes any and all weapons commonly carried by individual soldiers. Not necessarily strategic weapons deployed by armies or nations.

What is a militia? A group of people with lots of digicam clothes, chest rigs and guns that run around the woods on weekends. Membership is composed of mostly unemployed/under employed, overweight white guys and undercover law enforcement agents.

Sadly that is true of most of the tiny “organized militias”. The picture the left paints.