School me on militias....

[mammynun]

No, not the classic "everyone's a General and we're gonna drink beer and shoot guns in the woods" style of militia... more of a Militia, Inc. or Militia, LLC.

During a 2A discussion I was asked "So, what well regulated militia do you belong to?" Not that I think a well regulated militia has much to do with the 2A as it applies to me, but it did make me wonder "Just what it take to meet the legal definition of a "militia?"

Is there a legal definition? A minimum size? What would be the pros and cons of forming one for the purposes of satisfying any future law and/or SCOTUS ruling? I'm talking immediate family/close friend size... let's say around 12 people max. Make it an S corp or an LLC so that it's on paper with the state () and therefore "official." Bylaws with all the right verbiage about being "well regulated" and providing "common defense." Could it piggyback off an NFA trust, or would it be best to keep them separate?

Would something along these lines be a waste of time, or an obstacle to infringement? How much pay and BAH/BAQ could I pay the militiamen and women ('cause I'm all about diversity and junk) and write off on taxes?

 

[rugertoter]

I don't know much about a militia, and don't really care to either. If the bottom totally falls out, then I guess I would have a reason to join one.

 

[wcd]

No, not the classic "everyone's a General and we're gonna drink beer and shoot guns in the woods" style of militia... more of a Militia, Inc. or Militia, LLC.

During a 2A discussion I was asked "So, what well regulated militia do you belong to?" Not that I think a well regulated militia has much to do with the 2A as it applies to me, but it did make me wonder "Just what it take to meet the legal definition of a "militia?"
I
Is there a legal definition? A minimum size? What would be the pros and cons of forming one for the purposes of satisfying any future law and/or SCOTUS ruling? I'm talking immediate family/close friend size... let's say around 12 people max. Make it an S corp or an LLC so that it's on paper with the state () and therefore "official." Bylaws with all the right verbiage about being "well regulated" and providing "common defense." Could it piggyback off an NFA trust, or would it be best to keep them separate?

Would something along these lines be a waste of time, or an obstacle to infringement? How much pay and BAH/BAQ could I pay the militiamen and women ('cause I'm all about diversity and junk) and write off on taxes?

I believe the original intent was for the people to be a well regulated militia in that they had appropriate firearms and the training to use them. Thus the value of the Civilian Marksmanship program.

Must my .02

 

[VERT]

Mammy if you are an adult who is not exempted then you already belong to the militia. No further action necessary. Belonging to a militia is not a requirement but rather a statement of the reason for the second admendment.

 

[KellyinAvon]

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason

 

[VERT]

I believe the original intent was for the people to be a well regulated militia in that they had appropriate firearms and the training to use them. Thus the value of the Civilian Marksmanship program.

Must my .02

Correct well regulated was the term used to describe something in good working order. The militia was made up of the citizenry. Arms are necessary for the militia/citizenry to have what it needs to function. Well regulated does not mean government over site. So because citizens require arms to defend the state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Maybe not the best interpretation but you get the idea.

 

[mammynun]

I gave the "I'm in the Indiana Militia, and so are you" answer in the discussion...

My theoretical question boils down to this:

"Does there exist a legal instrument that would allow a [STRIKE]person[/STRIKE] citizen to retain 2A rights in the face of hostile legislation or judicial interpretation?"

My thoughts turned towards an unofficial militia, which is a topic (and subset of the population) that I generally avoid. At any rate, I don't think it will work... Indiana Code 2016 - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session

 

[MontereyC6]

I gave the "I'm in the Indiana Militia, and so are you" answer in the discussion...

My theoretical question boils down to this:

"Does there exist a legal instrument that would allow a [STRIKE]person[/STRIKE] citizen to retain 2A rights in the face of hostile legislation or judicial interpretation?"

My thoughts turned towards an unofficial militia, which is a topic (a subset of the population) that I generally avoid. At any rate, I don't think it will work... Indiana Code 2016 - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session

If you figure it out, let me know. You gots good gear.

 

[possum_128]

Webster’s defines Militia as; A military force that is not part of the regular army and is subject to call for in an emergency.
The United States defines the Militia in U.S. Code Title 10>Subtitle A>Part I>Chapter 13 as;
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) The organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) The unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. (Source: United States Code).

I disagree with (b) (1), of the above which states” The organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia”. The Militia has never been designed, nor intended to be part of the Armed Forces. The National Guard is in fact, a part of our Federal Armed Forces.

 

[mammynun]

Correct well regulated was the term used to describe something in good working order.

I usually follow that statement with "that's why it doesn't say 'well governed'."

 

[KG1]

One of the anti crowds arguments is that the 2nd amendment only applies to being in a well regulated (government restricted) militia. It's not an individual right to keep and bear arms.

They and their media co-conspirators would classify any group of people forming their own militia as wacko home grown uber right wing terrorists.

 

[OakRiver]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
"(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."

Well regulated at the time the Second Amendment meant in good working order. It sounds like whoever you were speaking with may not understand the Second Amendment as it was written.

When you clarify that anyone who is a citizen or intends to be a citizen is considered a part of a militia please ask that person what they believe "shall not be infringed" means. Bonus points of you can get that person to explain why "The right of the people..." only applies to a militia, but the Constitution is for all citizens as it begins "We the people"


For an Indiana specific take on the right to keep and bear arms - Indiana Constitution - Article 1
"Section 32. Arms--Right to bear


Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."

 

[PGRChaplain]

"Homeland Security"!

 

[jbombelli]

Indiana Constitution says:

ARTICLE 12. Militia

Section 1. Composition

Section 1. A militia shall be provided and shall consist of all persons over the age of seventeen (17) years, except those persons who may be exempted by the laws of the United States or of this state. The militia may be divided into active and inactive classes and consist of such military organizations as may be provided by law

 

[BogWalker]

IGR: Home

If you want to be in as "official" a militia as it gets, the Indiana Guard Reserve is an option.

It is the official state militia and is under the command of the governor. It can not be deployed outside of the state. They protect armories when the National Guard is deployed, act as first responders during natural disasters, assist in training the National Guard and Army, and have worked security for visiting politicians and dignitaries.

While I think all citizens able to serve are part of the militia, there remains no effective way to "call up" that general militia for service. That's a problem that needs solved.

 

[david890]

So because citizens require arms to defend the state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Maybe not the best interpretation but you get the idea.

IMHO, that's the interpretation that was ignored in Heller and other court decisions. KBA to defend the state (not the individual), as the Founders didn't want a standing army.

That being said, I think the OP wants to know more about the mechanics of a militia: min/max size, who appoints the officers, how are they funded/armed/supported, etc.

 

[jbombelli]

IMHO, that's the interpretation that was ignored in Heller and other court decisions. KBA to defend the state (not the individual), as the Founders didn't want a standing army.

That being said, I think the OP wants to know more about the mechanics of a militia: min/max size, who appoints the officers, how are they funded/armed/supported, etc.

He got the legal definition, which is part of what he asked, and doesn't specify, because it's ALL of us

 

[david890]

because it's ALL of us

Except it's not. I'm mid-50s, so too old by Fed and IN state law. Which would apply in a disaster requiring a militia? IMHO, the IN Nat Guard can be called out without permission of the Fed, but can the Fed order them to step down?

If I showed up for muster, would I be turned away because of my age and disability (neither of which prevents me - usually - from putting suppressive fire for the younger guys)?

 

[IndyDave1776]

IMHO, that's the interpretation that was ignored in Heller and other court decisions. KBA to defend the state (not the individual), as the Founders didn't want a standing army.

That being said, I think the OP wants to know more about the mechanics of a militia: min/max size, who appoints the officers, how are they funded/armed/supported, etc.

Of course that text isn't considered in Heller. Article I Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution has no bearing on a federal case regarding Washington DC.

 

[jbombelli]

Except it's not. I'm mid-50s, so too old by Fed and IN state law. Which would apply in a disaster requiring a militia? IMHO, the IN Nat Guard can be called out without permission of the Fed, but can the Fed order them to step down?

If I showed up for muster, would I be turned away because of my age and disability (neither of which prevents me - usually - from putting suppressive fire for the younger guys)?

Indiana code 10-16-6-2:

Sec. 2. The militia shall be divided into two (2) classes, the sedentary militia and the national guard, as follows:

(1) The sedentary militia consists of all persons subject to bear arms under the Constitution of the State of Indiana who do not belong to the national guard.

(2) The national guard consists of those able-bodied citizens between the proper ages as established by this article who may be enrolled, organized, and mustered into the service of the state as provided in this article.  The organized militia of the state constitutes and shall be known as the Indiana national guard.




Welcome to the militia, unless of course the term "all persons subject to bear arms under the Constitution of the State of Indiana who do not belong to the National Guard" doesn't apply to you. Age limits don't apply to the sedentary militia.