House Passes Bill to Keep Creditors From Taking Guns

[RomanDad]

House Passes Bill to Keep Creditors From Taking Guns - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

If you file for bankruptcy, you run the risk of losing your money and your car to creditors.
But under a measure that just overwhelmingly passed the House of Representatives, one thing they would not be able to take is your gun.
The House this afternoon passed a bill that would change the law to allow someone going through bankruptcy proceedings to retain their rifles, shotguns, and pistols so long as they are worth less than $3,000 combined. (CBS Radio Capitol Hill correspondent Bob Fuss reports that, under the law, if you keep just one firearm, there is no such limit on its value.)
Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-VT, introduced a similar measure in the Senate yesterday. The bill passed the House 307 to 113.
The House measure was introduced by freshman Democratic Rep. John Boccieri of Ohio, who argues that "We must protect the rights guaranteed to us by our founding fathers, no matter what financial circumstances a citizen might face," according to The Plain Dealer.
The National Rifle Association, possibly the most powerful lobbying group in Washington, endorsed the measure, saying in part, "We think it is reasonable for folks who are in financial distress to have an effective means of defending themselves."
Many states already have carve-outs for firearms in bankruptcy proceedings.
New York Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy argued on the House floor that the measure is a mistake, the Plain Dealer reports, arguing that having guns in households that are going through bankruptcy could increase the risks of suicide and violence.

 

[DetroitTackleberry]

I'm sure most of us would be screwed out of a few firearms if it came down to it. Personally I lost all mine when the house boat went under in Lake Erie this summer so I wouldn't hve to worry about it.....

 

[oldschoolmuscle]

I think it. Might be time for a m134 and then file lol....

 

[E5RANGER375]

New York Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy argued on the House floor that the measure is a mistake, the Plain Dealer reports, arguing that having guns in households that are going through bankruptcy could increase the risks of suicide and violence.

^^ this c***s reasoning is VERY SCARY!!!!

 

[Whosyer]

^^ this c***s reasoning is VERY SCARY!!!!

In case you haven't heard of this anti gun witch before, check out this link to her website.

Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy : Gun Safety

 

[Jay]

"to retain their rifles, shotguns, and pistols so long as they are worth less than $3,000 combined."

uhhh, I know "some folks" who have more than $3K in just ammo....

 

[VUPDblue]

I know a lot of folks who used to own guns....but sold them all or lost them before filing Without registration, how in the heck would creditors know about any firearms owned by debtors in the first place?

 

[Farmerjon]

I don't want to be guilty of hijacking a thread, but with all of the threads and posts of all the guns all of us own, couldn't that be used against us? Or used by criminals to steal them from us?

 

[DocBoCook]

"to retain their rifles, shotguns, and pistols so long as they are worth less than $3,000 combined."

uhhh, I know "some folks" who have more than $3K in just ammo....

thats where you have them reside at a good friends for while until you finish the bankruptcy proceedings.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I don't want to be guilty of hijacking a thread, but with all of the threads and posts of all the guns all of us own, couldn't that be used against us? Or used by criminals to steal them from us?

very true. Thats why I never post all of what I got on here. If people want to fine. but no one will ever know how many of my guns i lost in my boating accident

 

[techres]

Some volume of these cases are likely to be divorces. How would the creditor's know make, model & number? Easy, soon to be ex said so!

 

[RomanDad]

I know a lot of folks who used to own guns....but sold them all or lost them before filing Without registration, how in the heck would creditors know about any firearms owned by debtors in the first place?

I suppose if you have 20K on a defaulted visa, and most of the charges are to "Bob's Guns" the creditor is going to want to know what the hell you bought there. And "I lost it in a boating accident" wont suffice for the bankruptcy Judge. After all, the Court doesnt HAVE to grant you bankruptcy if they think you are hiding assets or being uncooperative. The borrower asking for bankruptcy relief is really in no position to get cheeky with the process.

Im a bit torn on all this... To me, bankruptcy is legalized theft. But the Constitution specifically provides for it. Just the same, I pay my debts... I live within my means... And I set something (a lot) aside for a rainy day... And am a little leery of those who don't. At the very least, they should give back the tangible assets they bought with the credit, to help the lender offset some of his losses.

I guess the upside of this for me is the Congress voted overwhelmingly for a pro gun bill. Sort of a "which way the wind blows" bill.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I suppose if you have 20K on a defaulted visa, and most of the charges are to "Bob's Guns" the creditor is going to want to know what the hell you bought there. And "I lost it in a boating accident" wont suffice for the bankruptcy Judge. After all, the Court doesnt HAVE to grant you bankruptcy if they think you are hiding assets or being uncooperative. The borrower asking for bankruptcy relief is really in no position to get cheeky with the process.

Im a bit torn on all this... To me, bankruptcy is legalized theft. But the Constitution specifically provides for it. Just the same, I pay my debts... I live within my means... And I set something (a lot) aside for a rainy day... And am a little leery of those who don't. At the very least, they should give back the tangible assets they bought with the credit, to help the lender offset some of his losses.

I guess the upside of this for me is the Congress voted overwhelmingly for a pro gun bill. Sort of a "which way the wind blows" bill.

This is Indiana, there is no gun registration, and a bill of sale or record is not require when a firearm is sold FTF.

All you have to say is I sold them off 1 at a time to help pay my bills.

 

[PatriotPride]

I used a credit-card for an escort service, and when I woke up, the ten women I had hired for the week were gone, along with all my firearms except this one

 

[RomanDad]

This is Indiana, there is no gun registration, and a bill of sale or record is not require when a firearm is sold FTF.

All you have to say is I sold them off 1 at a time to help pay my bills.

Indiana law really has nothing to do with it. Bankruptcy is a Federal Procedure.... Mink Coats, stacks of cash and diamonds arent registered either, but the Bankruptcy court routinely find them when people try to hide them from creditors. When you file for bankruptcy, you basically open your financial life up in a way that even an IRS audit cant compare to. If you say "I sold that asset" theyre going to want to see cash flow in and out of accounts at the very least. Bankruptcy Courts have seen and heard it all before... They know all the tricks. And even if you get away with it at the time, if the FBI later find out you lied about it - You're hosed.

PERJURY during a bankruptcy proceeding is a VERY BAD IDEA.... Not only is it morally wrong, but its good for 5 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine for EACH COUNT (and... They dismiss your bankruptcy, so you still owe the debt, when you finally get out).

 

[Prometheus]

I suppose if you have 20K on a defaulted visa, and most of the charges are to "Bob's Guns" the creditor is going to want to know what the hell you bought there. And "I lost it in a boating accident" wont suffice for the bankruptcy Judge. After all, the Court doesnt HAVE to grant you bankruptcy if they think you are hiding assets or being uncooperative. The borrower asking for bankruptcy relief is really in no position to get cheeky with the process.

I know several people who filed bankruptcy under the old laws (2 years+ ago). Credit card companies don't show up unless you made a bunch of charges within 90 days of filing bankruptcy.

The average bankruptcy hearing lasted 90-120 seconds in 2006. With the bankruptcy volume up since then I can only guess those times have decreased.

Im a bit torn on all this... To me, bankruptcy is legalized theft. But the Constitution specifically provides for it.

Torn about what? Banks know the score going in. They know that on every single account they issue the borrower has a right to default.

As to legalized theft... what did the borrower steal from the bank? If you are familiar with our system of banking (fractional reserve), you realize that the money they lent out didn't exist until they wrote the check. If you or I do that, it's illegal. These national banks do it all day long.

They then claim the $1,000 credit line they issued to JimBob is "collateral" and can loan out $900 on the $1,000 revolving account they just issued. After they loan out the $900 they then can loan out $810 based on the new "collateral" of the $900 account and so on. After all, they only need to have 10% "on hand".

THERE is the theft.

Lets not forget the banks can increase the interest rate on any revolving account with 30 days notice. You miss the notice buried in your statement between the siding and windows fliers, your rate just went from 10% to 29.99% and you didn't even miss a payment.

Just a part of doing business and part of the insanity of the fractional reserve banking system we have.

With todays insane banking and monetary fiasco going bankrupt is in no way anything like defaulting on a debt to an actual person.

I also find it comical that many people who supported the bankruptcy reform 2-3 years ago are now being completely f'ed over by that same system.

I warned many supporters of it 2-3 years it of the dangers. "I pay MY bills! I work!" Funny how things work 2-3 years later they are out of job, suckign down .gov welfare (unemployment) and now being forced to restructure their debt rather the discharge they could have gotten 2-3 years ago.

Reality sucks eh? Being held to those same standards suck doesn't it? Hope your glad you got what you asked for.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
To me, bankruptcy is legalized theft. But the Constitution specifically provides for it. Just the same, I pay my debts... I live within my means... And I set something (a lot) aside for a rainy day... And am a little leery of those who don't. At the very least, they should give back the tangible assets they bought with the credit, to help the lender offset some of his losses.

I guess the upside of this for me is the Congress voted overwhelmingly for a pro gun bill. Sort of a "which way the wind blows" bill.

Actually, the idea of bankruptcy long predates the Constitution. A whole bunch of years ago, I had to file and the attorney we used (who is now a judge) informed me that it had its roots in the Bible, where every seven years, all debts were forgiven. My first thought was, "That's silly... who would lend anything in year #6?" but apparently, to refuse to do so was very much frowned upon.

I agree with you that it's a much better idea to pay your debts and I think it's wonderful that Congress is passing pro-gun-rights bills. Now it just has to go to the Senate and then to Obama.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[mrjarrell]

Just something to lure in the weak minded come November.

 

[pig957]

very true. Thats why I never post all of what I got on here. If people want to fine. but no one will ever know how many of my guns i lost in my boating accident

I lost my firearms in a boating accident too, and I don't own a boat.

 

[Hiram2005]

I lost my firearms in a boating accident too, and I don't own a boat.

Well ,it went down at the same time didn't it?