Tips for accurizing the Nagant family of Rifles

[N_K_1984]

Tips for accurizing the Mosin Nagant Rifle

This is a topic that seems to come up a lot around here, and I often weigh in on it. I wanted to post up this information that was passed on to me by Mr. Ken Norberg of Rock Solid Ind. Rock Solid Industries - Rifle Accessories - Mosin Nagant

I hope all of you fellow Mosin nuts out there enjoy this.

The first 2 pics are from a customer who shoots an M-39 set up like mine, he also shoots my load. The 3rd pic is of a Finn M39 7.62X54R with a Sightron 6X target scope on a Rock Solid mount. This setup won the 2008 CBA Military Rifle Modified Scope Class Nationals and holds several CBA Military Rifle cast bullet National Records Also a link on pillar bedding. As well as a tip on free floating your barrel.. Again if you need any help or have a question don?t hesitate to contact me.
Ken Norberg
R.S.I.

THE ABSOLTE BEST CUSTOM GUN STOCKS FOR THE MOSIN NAGANT AT A GREAT PRICE!!

http://www.loweldesigns.com/


The key to a great load for the 762x54 is IMR 4350!!! On a 150 grain bullet load 52 grains low and 55 grains top. A 180 grain load is the same 52gr low 55gr top. The load best is a Sierra 303 cal .311 dia 174gr HPBT match bullet #2315 over 54gr of IMR 4350. The OAL is 3.050 seated right out to the lands. I use a federal 210 match grade or a CCI bench rest primer and Lupua brass neck sized only. This load will split hairs at 100yrds in fact I have on repeated occasions punched one ragged hole with as many as 12 to 15 rounds at 100yrds!!!
NO BS!!! My personal best that was witnessed at 800yrds 3?. This was with a 1944 Sako M39. Our mount and a Shepherd P2 counter sniper scope.When loading for a carbine M-38 or M-44 we have found that bullets with a long barring surface work best. 150-180 round nose flat
base. I will put a medium crump on all of my loads . I highly
Recommend the Lee factory crimp. We have found that by using it on all factory mil-surp ammo you can cut the size of your groups by ¼ to ½.
Ken



How to smooth out and speed up the Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle.

The picture sent with these instructions parts ID are.

1 Extractor
2 Bolt Head
3 Firing Pin Spring
4 Firing Pin
5 Connecting Bar
6 Cocking Piece
7 Bolt Body

Part 5 the connecting bar is the main pivot point of the bolt and the key to a smooth/fast action. Start buy a very complete cleaning of all the parts. Rubbing alcohol works great on crusty Russian cosmoline.
Next using a scotch brite pad clean the two male ends on the connecting bar. Then clean the inside of the bolt head with the pad, also the bolt body end that slips over the male end of the connecting bar. If you have a polishing wheel then buff the two male ends.

Reassemble.

Use a good quality grease like white lithium Lith-Ease or a high quality silicon grease.
Next you apply a heavy coat to the two male ends on the connecting bar and the inside of the bolt head as well to the inside lip of the bolt body. I also apply some to the guide ring on the firing pin. Don?t worry about the grease squeezing out of the bolt when you put back together, just wipe off the excess after you have reassembled.
Caution? some silicon lubes if put down the bore will throw off your shots. So remember to wipe the bolt down. I learned this the hard way.
Ken

Free floating the barrel.

The best way I have found to free float a barrel is to take a piece of ¾ white pvc plastic water pipe about 8? long. Wrap it with sand paper 60 grit if working with a composite ati stock and a less aggressive grit if your working a wood stock. Work this back and forth in the barrel channel.You will need to check your progress by putting the action in the stock looking at the float. The ideal float for me is a sheet of note paper folded 3 times that will slide under and around the barrel from the tip of the forearm back to the action.

Polishing the bore.

The Mosin Nagant is not a chrome lined barrel but you can shine it
just like one. I can not stress this enough IT WILL IMPROVE ACCURACY!
It is a well known fact non chrome lined barrels give the best accuracy. Most of the mil-surp rifles on the market today have been in military storage depots for 50 to 60 years. The Cosmoline they used prevented rust, but stained the bore. This can be removed and shined up improving accuracy buy using a product found in the auto section with the waxes and polish of your local Wal-Mart. The name of the product is Never Dull silver can black lettering. W hen you open it up it looks like spun cotton candy. Put your slotted cleaning tip on your rod and run it thru the bore so the slotted tip is sticking out the muzzle. Pull a jag of never dull out and work it thru the slot, the jag should be large enough to be tight fit when pulled back into the bore. Work this back and forth in the bore. When the first jag is removed it will most likely be tar black. Now run 2 clean patches thru the bore. I like to break in a new mil-surp bore by running 5 jags of Never Dull with clean patches between jags on the 5th jag I use a large clean patch to buff the bore. After shooting I always finish cleaning the bore with a jag of Never Dull and a clean patch then oil the bore.




Pillar bedding: the link I am sending is on a K-31 but the principal is the same! The end result will be that the only the reciver is locked into the stock. Also go to the 1st page on our site,click on the story of the heavy barrel with the thumb hole stock. Read how he set the action in the stock.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/899


Last but not least!
Next look at the trigger you will probably need to work it over, or replace it? It boils down to what works for you, but a SNAP CAP will help you get your trigger control down with out shooting ammo. This is something I do on a regular basis. Set down in a room with a window and set a sand bag on a table, pick a target looking out the window.
When you get your trigger pull down the cross hairs won?t move making the shot.
New Trigger


http://timneytriggers.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=50


Good Reading Links

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=29075


http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=95625



Here is my M44 that I've built with parts and advice from Ken at Rock Solid Ind. *new* Pictures Added 2/11/11

 

[Nizidramaniiyt]

That's fantastic! I'm a huge fan of the Mosin. They're sometimes extremely accurate out of the box with just a little adjustment of the iron sights, but most of my targets are pumpkins, fire extinguishers, concrete blocks, and other medium-sized objects at 50-100m. It would be even more interesting to make a couple of the modifications above and make it even better.

 

[N_K_1984]

Building my first M44 was awesome. I love my Mosin Nagant. I really believe in the potential of these firearms. I hope folks out there get some good use out of this thread.

 

[jontheturboguy]

Whats on the end of the m44? ^

 

[Clay]

AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[N_K_1984]

Whats on the end of the m44? ^

It serves no real purpose other than covering up the naked shoulder left behind after romoving the front site. It's an asthetic piece. My brother in law machined it for me. It's one off.

 

[N_K_1984]

That's fantastic! I'm a huge fan of the Mosin. They're sometimes extremely accurate out of the box with just a little adjustment of the iron sights, but most of my targets are pumpkins, fire extinguishers, concrete blocks, and other medium-sized objects at 50-100m. It would be even more interesting to make a couple of the modifications above and make it even better.

Video footage?

 

[malern28us]

I did the part to clean upthe bolt action this weekend and wonder if anyone else has done this yet? How much can you buff the tooling marks out of it and still be safe?

 

[N_K_1984]

i did the polish job on mine. I can still lightly see my tooling marks. don't remove much material, just clean it and polish it. I just used a buffing wheel on my dremel tool. It shouldn't remove much material.

Next using a scotch brite pad clean the two male ends on the connecting bar. Then clean the inside of the bolt head with the pad, also the bolt body end that slips over the male end of the connecting bar. If you have a polishing wheel then buff the two male ends

Buffing and polishing using wheels and compounds is somewhat like using wet and dry sand paper, only much faster. Instead of using 'elbow grease' you will be using the power and speed of an electric motor.

The edge, or face, of the wheel is the 'sanding block', which carries a thin layer of compound which is the sandpaper. Varying types of wheel are available, and the different grades of compound are scaled similar to sandpaper. The compounds are made from a wax substance which has the different abrasive powders added to it. When this hard block is applied to the edge of a spinning buffing wheel, the heat from the friction melts the wax, and both wax and abrasive are applied in a thin slick to the face of the wheel.​

The objective of buffing and polishing is to make a rough surface into a smooth one and, of course, each work piece will be in a different condition, so will need different procedures. Imagine the surface magnified thousands of times, it will look like jagged mountains and valleys. By repeated abrasion, you are going to wear down those mountains until they are old, soft, rolling hills! Then they will not dissipate the light, but reflect it. It is the reflection that makes the buffed part appear shiny.

 

[malern28us]

I havent actually done the buffing part yet. I found that the bolt was so easy to disassemble I actually cleaned up 2 of them with just the scotch brite pad. I am thinking about purchasing a buffing wheel for the last of it but did not want to get carried away. I am planning on working on the "free float" aspect of it this upcoming weekend along with the never dull polishing.

I went to the link that you posted earlier and saw the bedding block option and am considering doing this also.

 

[N_K_1984]

I havent actually done the buffing part yet. I found that the bolt was so easy to disassemble I actually cleaned up 2 of them with just the scotch brite pad. I am thinking about purchasing a buffing wheel for the last of it but did not want to get carried away. I am planning on working on the "free float" aspect of it this upcoming weekend along with the never dull polishing.

I went to the link that you posted earlier and saw the bedding block option and am considering doing this also.

Awesome! I'm glad the information I posted has come to some good use. Nothing like the knowledge that others are bringing their Mosin's up to a higher standard of fire breathing performance. Keep working on it! Good luck!

 

[CorvetteTom]

Great post! Thank you from a new Mosin(1942 Tula) owner for the very well done post. I haven't fired mine yet but the bolt action feels stiff. It's great to have someone that's 'been there' when looking for answers. +1

 

[N_K_1984]

...Before you go grinding or polishing anything, i tell you what CorvetteTom, get a .308 chamber brush, a (30cal?)dowel rod, some .30cal cleaning supplies, some windex, compressed air, and then scrub that chamber! The windex works great to loosen copper fouling, degreases, and will get that cosmoline loose.

With the Mosin Nagant, copper fouling and cosmoline are your worst enemies!

Amonia is your friend! (i.e. Windex!)

Here's what I did. I went and bought a dowel rod at the local craft store, as close as possible to 30cal. Cut a piece off the dowel, and shave just a small amount off the dowel as if you were sharpening it... plug the end of your barrel. Now, hang it muzzle down, in the shower, and fill that puppy full of windex all the way up, I mean all the way up. Let it soak.

Drain the barrel and action, use a .308 chamber brush to clean the chamber, throat, and the locking lug recesses. Inspect thoroughly and often. If you have access to compressed air, blow the action out. If you need to loosen any hardened particles, sharpen that dowel rod you bought, use it to scrape the chamber. The windex should have softened it up enough for the dowel to be effective. Inspect and repeat as necessary. Use the windex to clean the barrel too. Keep running patches on a .30cal jag through the barrel until the patches come out clean (just blue from the windex.) The amonia is a really effective cleaner! scrub that action until she's shiny!!! just be patient and be diligent, it will pay off. When that sucker is good, clean, and dry, Oil her up and that bolt hopefully will close/lock/open like it should, and you will be a happy Mosin owner. I promise. Just keep up on the cleaning.

There is a common method of cleaning the mosin chamber and locking lug recesses with a 12g shotgun brush and a drill, just be patient, use the windex and hand power at first.

My bolt opens, closes, and locks effortlessly, like it was designed to... I never used any power tools to achieve this. If I was at home, I would throw a video up of how smooth my action is. Windex, elbow grease, and determination paid off!

Inspect that chamber though! Use mirrors, flashlights, whatever you have your disposal. You'd be surprised at how little of debris can clog that action up. Keep that action clean!

Good luck CorvetteTom!

 

[boozoo]

Good tips. I like to keep mine as "original configuration" as possible, so I generally follow what a couple of ideas the Commies themselves used to do and was touched on by the surplusrifles.com link.

I did have one that had a really rough set of ramps in the bolt. It cycled ok, but felt like hell.... and the trigger was terrible. What I did is just what is described. Clean up the milling marks first. I use a fine file instead of emory for accuracy and control... and I'm very very patient so I don't get too carried away (I usually do things like during a movie LOL). Once I'm done, I de-bur the edges of the surface I'm working on, and once that is done, I polish.

I did that for the ramps on the bolt and for the sear and cocking knob's mating surfaces. I also rather than shim the sear spring chose to shave the sear, but I work a VERY LITTLE BIT at a time until it does what I want.

 

[N_K_1984]

... I work a VERY LITTLE BIT at a time until it does what I want.

Well said! When working with the Mosins, patience and attention to detail go a long way.

 

[N_K_1984]

Boredom presented itself with a "mosin nagant" google session. I often see posts on here abot scoping the Mosin Nagant. Here's a great little internet article found on Suburban Survivalist

Here's the article. Enjoy

So you’ve picked up a Mosin Nagant for an excellent price and the next step is to put a scope on this hi-powered rifle. The 7.62.54R falls in between the .308 (7.62×51) and the .30-06 (7.62×63), and is also similar to .303 British (7.7x56mmR). This rifle is perfect for hunting and long-range shooting – it’s practically begging to be scoped.
Unfortunately, the Mosin Nagant wasn’t really designed to be scoped and the options available will in most cases cost more than the rifle, even before purchasing the actual optic. Some of the solutions involve drilling and tapping the rifle, which can be difficult if you don’t have the right tools or are uncomfortable with potentially marring your firearm.
Overall there are two basic options; the “scout” mount, which is forward on the rifle and uses a long eye relief (LER) scope similar to those used on pistols, or the traditional location over the bolt using standard scopes. Both have their pros and cons.
Scout Mount
This is the easiest and least expensive of the two options, but means you must 1) remove the rear sight assembly and 2) use a LER scope (though this might be an acceptable option if you wear eyeglasses). These are both cons for me since I like having see-thru mounts that allow the use of iron sights as a backup, and I don’t really care for LER scopes. If you don’t care about either of those things, you’ve found your solution and are set.
There are a few options here. There are several systems where part of the rear sight is removed and a mounting system, usually with a weaver/picatinny rail, are installed (photos). This allows for standard mounts to be used and a wide variety of appropriate LER scopes.
Some have noted that if the entire rear sight assembly is removed on a 91/30 Mosin Nagant, 3/8” male dovetail grooves are revealed, the same as on modern .22 rifles and airguns. This means you can purchase some cheap but still quality 1” rings for about $10 and mount a scope. However, you’ll have to work to get the sight assembly removed:

[There are] two pins holding the sight base on, and they usually have a dab of solder on the base to dovetail. Gentle heating with a small torch to melt the solder, then tap the base forward and it comes right off.
​

Besides not needing to drill/tap any holes in your rifle, another pro is that you can retain the straight bolt.
S&K Scope Mounts offers a product for this (though the ordering method looks cumbersome), as does Tick Bite Supply.
Traditional Mount
Scopes mounted in the normal fashion are, to me and many others, simple easier to use. In most cases removing the scope allows the use of iron sights, another pro. However, to use a scope in this position the straight bolt on the Mosin Nagant must be bent. Right out of the gates that’s an expense.
There are some kits that include the bent bolt or part for modifying it. Personally I don’t have the tools required and don’t want to take a chance at mutilating my rifle. The most popular kit is from ATI; it includes a rail that must be drilled/tapped and part of a bolt that also requires machining. It doesn’t have very good reviews.
This brings up the bolt. The Mosin Nagant has a straight bolt that comes up right into the space a traditionally mounted scope would be. The only solution for a scope mounted there is to have the bolt bent or in someway modified for the same effect. From all I’ve read, one of the best sources for getting this done is a vendor who goes by “The Boltman.”
Another option is what the Soviets used for their sniper rifles, which is a left-side mounted (drilled/tapped) plate that comes up for the scope mount. This still requires the bent bolt.
There are a few companies that make custom mounts for the Mosin Nagant (again, need a bent bolt to use them).

• Jmeck – I like this one because it’s a see-thru mount and doesn’t require any drilling/tapping. Seems to have a good reputation on the various forums, and there is a You Tube video of the mount installation by a customer.
• Rock Solid Industries – This looks like a well made product that will fit the bill. They note it’s low profile, and offer bolts (higher cost than Boltman, however). Cannot use iron sights.
• Advanced Rifle Parts – This mount attaches to the rear sight assembly to provide the traditional scope placement, and also seems well made. Cannot use iron sights.
• Tick Bite Supply – Offers several options, including the scout type mounts described above, and a hideous tactical tri-rail mount that is just wrong for a Mosin Nagant.

Conclusion
The scout mount is much less expensive and is probably easier to implement, while the Jmeck mount seems to be what I’d prefer (though the mount would cost more than a new rifle and the bolt would need to be bent on top of that, all before purchasing the scope!).
Though I don’t care for the scout setup, I may consider it for my Mosin Nagant due to cost concerns. Perhaps I can get used to it and even prefer it for a high powered rifle, but it’ll be a few months before I need to decide anything.

Taken from Scope Mounts for the Mosin Nagant Suburban Survivalist

 

[N_K_1984]

The Jmeck link posted above may vary well be dead. Just a heads up. It took me to Ebay..?

 

[S/T]

that is one of the best write ups i have ever read on the mosin. I have been looking for a new mosin for a couple of years to replace my old M44. Well this Christmas I was shocked that my wife had bought me one. She purchased it from a local gun shop for 99.95, it is a sporterized 91/30 with the ati bolt and mount. I would never have bought it but God love a woman that buys her spouse a gun.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I got lucky with mine. The bolt was already smooth.

 

[N_K_1984]

More answers to common questions I get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 444HPD
I seen your post for accurizing the Mosin, very awesome rifle by the way you looks great, and I have a few questions

1. Amonia- Can I use straight amonia or is windex better, and can I soak the whole barrel in a 3" PVC tube or is it better to just soak the barrel?

2. What type of Paint did you use on your rifle, and how did you apply it, just by scuffing up everything or did it just adhere?

3. What type of stock did you use (brand name), and where did you get the bolt bent, I can machine but I am not going to attemt that? Also how did you modify the trigger if any did you buy a new one if so what brand?

4. How did you get the front sight off did you cut your barrel? Did you use JB weld or just a mig for the what looks like a flash suppressor? not sure Im just guessing thats what it was.

5. What type of ammo do you use just surplus or did you by some good brass?

Thank you for your time and your great review, I bought the rifle very cheap and did not really know what I had until I read some of your reviews.

Ammonia?: Just stick to Windex. It is cheap, readily available, and it works. You can use any method available to you to soak your parts. No big deal. Just get them soaked and cleaned. from time to time, I soak all my metal parts in Windex before further, thorough cleaning. The ammonia in the Windex is your Mosin's best friend.

Front Sight Removal: It's been 4 years since I removed my sights. As far as I recall, I heated the sight/bayonet bracket with heat gun, punched the two retaining pins, heated again, then punched the whole bracket off with a hammer. Once I got the bracket moving it came off pretty easy.

Muzzle end of my barrel: Actually it's not a flash suppressor, nor a sound suppressor, nor even a muzzle brake. It is just a "decorative" piece my Brother in Law machined up for me, just to cover up the ugly shoulder that is left behind when removing the front sight bracket. He machined the interior of the piece so it was a tight fit. I shined the metal on that bare shoulder (and inside the muzzle piece), fluxed it, flowed some solder onto the shined, bare metal, kept it hot, then pushed on the muzzle piece, applied more heat, then let cool. It is, for all intents and purposes, basically welded on. It's been there for four years, and never moved once. Even after hundreds upon hundreds of rounds fired.


Ammo: I just shoot surplus stuff. So I clean my gun upon returning from the range, EVERY time. I have achieved my best accuracy with name brand ammo, but it is EXPENSIVE compared to the surplus stuff. I want to just plink around, I go surplus. It's cheap and it shoots fairly accurately. I bought up some Greek mil-surp ammo a couple years back, I just finished it up. So I am in process of procuring new ammo. I'll tell you one ammo I know I don't like, copper washed Russian ammo. The loads seem to be very inconsistent. They make good fireballs though. I don't know, it could have just been the batch I bought.... You will just have to buy a bunch of ammo types and see what works for you and your gun.

Stock: modified ATI Stock Free floated, bedded
*bedding material: Devcon Plastic Steel Putty *recommended to me by a trusted coworker AND aluminum bedding pillars from Rock Solid Industries
I bedded my rifle myself. I just went on advice from afore-mentioned coworker. You can find all kinds of helpful instruction online. Just Google "rifle bedding" or something similar. I floated my barrel myself also. after bedding, make sure you remove material away from the barrel channel of the stock, enough so that you can cleanly pass a piece of paper from the end of the stock all the way to the point where the barrel contacts the receiver ring. Again, Google is your friend...

Camo Paint job: I lightly scuffed all the parts I would paint, ran over with a tack cloth, then sprayed a base of Olive Green. I then just layered leaves and sticks on the stock, put down a coat of black & let dry. Rearranged the leaves sprayed Khaki & let dry. Rearranged and sprayed Olive & let dry. Repeated process over and over until I achieved the desired look. Finished with a LIGHT wet sanding and Matte Clear of the same brand. Cheap, easy, and it has held up great. I painted the stock and scope about 4 years ago. and for $10 invested in the camo job, I can't beat it.
Krylon: Products: Camouflage Paint with Fusion Technology

Scope: BEC Inc GLI 3-12x44 Illuminated, Mil-Dot Reticule
*scope is really your preference. whatever your budget allows. I got my BEC on a clearance sale years ago. I've been pleased with it ever since.

Scope Base: Modified ATI base. Here's why. I went with the lowest rings possible on my rifle, to keep the center of my eye focus lower to allow for better cheek weld. SO, The ATI base, good quality, cheaper than the RSI, was easier on the heart to hack the end off of. This allows just the right amount of clearance (for ME) for the eye bell above the bolt handle as it goes reward, and allows the magnification ring to spin freely. You'll notice the low profile and scope/bolt handle clearances in the pictures. I used steel Burris Zee rings in medium height. This combination seems to work great, for me. This is MY gun, it is built around how I like it. *drilling/tapping, I did this myself, with the guidance of my machining-experienced brother-in-law.

Bolt: RSI bent bolt body. Rock Solid Industries - Rifle Accessories - Mosin Nagant Fits and functions flawlessly, VERY superb quality, great amount of torque for working the bolt. AND RSI has them in stock, so no need to modify your original bolt if need be.

Action screws: RSI (9/64 Hex Head screws) much easier to tighten and remove without damaging like the original screws... Rock Solid Industries - Rifle Accessories - Mosin Nagant

Firing Pin Spring: Definitely go Wolff. 30lb. This is what I run, it has a nice, sharp, crisp break over, hits hard, but not too hard. I like it. No problems. Punch on my primers has been just fine, no light strikes, no popped primers, and no complaints. Good stuff
The factory spring most likely works just fine in any Mosin you will buy. Here's my thing, you buy a 40+ year old gun, you need to replace some of the parts, springs are on that list. Just do it to be safe. It's easy, cheap, and can improve accuracy, SO why not!?


Trigger: Ok, so here's the fun stuff. While I do not currently run a Timney, I do run a modified stock trigger. DISCLAIMER modifying your trigger can be dangerous, if not deadly, DO NOT Attempt without consulting a professional gun smith. Perform at your own risk. My trigger works, it functions completely and safely. I took up some of the slop by shimming it. Both the trigger retaining pin, and the trigger spring screw. I also performed a POLISH job (polish, don't remove a bunch of material, just polish) on the bolt sear. polish to a high mirror finish. My trigger still has some slop, it's a little heavy, but it has a clean, crisp break over. it works for now. I do plan on installing a Timney trigger sometime though. Only based on the fact that my current trigger is still so heavy and so much slop still in it.