Yes, There are 4 Rules: Man Charged for Involuntary Manslaughter

[chipbennett]

Treat every firearm as if it were loaded:

Cleveland man charged in deadly accidental shooting at dinner party 'extremely sorry,' attorney says | cleveland.com

Steven Leannais, 30, made his first court appearance Monday following the shooting that killed Anthony Stanford II. Cleveland Municipal Court Judge Suzan Sweeney set his bond at $10,000. Leannais is charged with third-degree felony involuntary manslaughter.

...

Leannais took out the magazine and gave the gun back to the other man, who has not been charged with a crime in connection with the case.


The group laughs about it and the man puts the gun in his mouth and says: "I'm going to do it, I swear to God."


The man then says: "The last thing they say is always, 'I didn't know it was loaded.'"

...

Leannais eventually picked the gun up, lowered it to his side pulled the trigger, unaware a bullet was in the chamber, according to police reports and court records. The bullet hit Stanford in the upper abdomen, according to the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner.

 

[Spear Dane]

And don't play with them like they were toys!!! omg.

 

[steve0322]

Why would anyone take a gun out and play with it?? It's not a toy. Never point the firearm at anyone or yourself even if the magazine is out and the slide locked back.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

I think this is the perfect example of the 3 rules vs 4 rules debate, IE, people treat handguns differently if they think they are unloaded. The more I think about this, the more I like the 3 rules model.

 

[chipbennett]

I think this is the perfect example of the 3 rules vs 4 rules debate, IE, people treat handguns differently if they think they are unloaded. The more I think about this, the more I like the 3 rules model.

Certainly, the other 3 rules were all violated as well. But Rule 1 is the "mindset" rule that enables the 3 "behavior" rules.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Certainly, the other 3 rules were all violated as well. But Rule 1 is the "mindset" rule that enables the 3 "behavior" rules.

The irony is that I was on the other side of this debate not too long ago and have given it considerable thought. I will agree that the purpose is to establish a mindset, but that is not a universal concept. It's apparent that 2 "mindsets" are developed, one with a loaded firearm and one that assumes a firearm is unloaded.

Simply following Rule #1 of the NRA safety rules would have prevented this tragedy. 2 cents.

Gun Safety Rule #1: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

 

[chipbennett]

The irony is that I was on the other side of this debate not too long ago and have given it considerable thought. I will agree that the purpose is to establish a mindset, but that is not a universal concept. It's apparent that 2 "mindsets" are developed, one with a loaded firearm and one that assumes a firearm is unloaded.

Simply following Rule #1 of the NRA safety rules would have prevented this tragedy. 2 cents.

Gun Safety Rule #1: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

Avoiding that dichotomy of mindset is the point of Rule 1: ALWAYS treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

"I didn't know it was loaded."* (If you follow Rule 1, then it doesn't matter whether or not you knew the firearm was loaded; you would handle it the same, whether it was loaded or unloaded.)

*Note: direct quote from the incident linked in the OP.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Avoiding that dichotomy of mindset is the point of Rule 1: ALWAYS treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

"I didn't know it was loaded."* (If you follow Rule 1, then it doesn't matter whether or not you knew the firearm was loaded; you would handle it the same, whether it was loaded or unloaded.)

*Note: direct quote from the incident linked in the OP.

Feel free to read through the 47 pages of the thread I started in which I debated the virtues of the 4 rule system. I get where you're coming from, I'm just migrating to a different set of core beliefs in regard to gun safety for the masses. It's all good.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...9-rule-number-one-all-guns-always-loaded.html

 

[SSGSAD]

How about, NEVER point the gun, at something you aren't willing to DESTROY ?????

(or something like that) .....

 

[chipbennett]

How about, NEVER point the gun, at something you aren't willing to DESTROY ?????

(or something like that) .....

Yep; all four rules were violated in that story. Pointed a gun at something not intended to be destroyed. Put finger on the trigger when not intending the gun to go "bang". Wasn't cognizant of target. And all because the firearm was being treated as if it were not loaded.

 

[SSGSAD]

Yep; all four rules were violated in that story. Pointed a gun at something not intended to be destroyed. Put finger on the trigger when not intending the gun to go "bang". Wasn't cognizant of target. And all because the firearm was being treated as if it were not loaded.

AMEN, to all of THAT !!!!!

 

[308jake]

In before ATM

 

[223 Gunner]

The gun should have never been brought out. Immature men acting "big" by producing the gun to play with. Always a bad idea, made even worse with alcohol involved.
It's a damn shame a young man lost his life over gun play at a party.

 

[jgressley2003]

Such a steep price to pay for immature behavior. If the person who wandered off to retrieve the gun had minded his own business or if the owner had taken the gun and put it away rather than handing it back after he "cleared" it then this could have been prevented.

 

[chipbennett]

Which is why he is (appropriately, IMHO) being charged with involuntary manslaughter.

 

[TheJoker]

In before ATM

Maybe we can talk all night
But that ain't getting us nowhere
I told you everything Col. Cooper said
There's nothing left inside of here
And ATM can debate all night
But that'll never change the way I feel...
...don't be tough [...don't be tough ]
'Cause three out of four ain't enough

-- My most sincere apologies to Mr Marvin Lee Aday

 

[ATM]

All apologies aside I have but one question:


who has sammiches?

 

[JettaKnight]

I think this is the perfect example of the 3 rules vs 4 rules debate, IE, people treat handguns differently if they think they are unloaded. The more I think about this, the more I like the 3 rules model.

Avoiding that dichotomy of mindset is the point of Rule 1: ALWAYS treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

"I didn't know it was loaded."* (If you follow Rule 1, then it doesn't matter whether or not you knew the firearm was loaded; you would handle it the same, whether it was loaded or unloaded.)

*Note: direct quote from the incident linked in the OP.

If you didn't have anything in your rule set about the condition of the firearm then there would not be an excuse to allow such horseplay.


This whole video is cringeworthy. Why was the gun out? Why was the banal party of these Millennials streamed live to Facebook? Who the heck wanted to watched them act like idiots? Will theories go up about the fact that the one black man at the party was killed? Is that old school building where this took place a decent place to live?


ETA:
The irony is that the man in the video making a jackass of himself wasn't the shooter - it was the gun owner.

 

[Spear Dane]

I just watched that video and I am VERY confused. What I think I see here is guy removes mag, racks slide twice, begins to give it back and in the process points it at the wall and pulls the trigger, says "Here you go, now it's unloaded." Anyone else agree? Or am I missing something?

 

[2A_Tom]

In before Kirk.