Would have drawn my weapon: Pan handler/drunk beggar/?

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    17   0   0
    Jan 29, 2013
    1,123
    48
    Mars Hill
    Went to the local ghetto liquor store for some beer. I park my vehicle on the north end of the parking lot. I see one small male and one tall male on the south side of the store hanging out.

    As I walk into the store I see the tall guy stab the building up to his max reach by a light with something that looked like a thin spike. Weird yes. Intoxicated more than likely, they seemed to be enjoying themselves in conversation.

    My first thought as an electrician was he was hitting the light, to get it to come back on. No, he stabbed the building with something that looked like a gutter nail or pull barn nail. I have no idea what it was. This all happens as I am at the door,open it and go in.

    Of coarse I buy my beer and leave the store by pushing the door toward the guys to give a barrier. I look at them as I go the opposite way. They are 30 feet away. Tall guy yells " hey man" *keep walking and look* .

    Tall man "can i get some change for beer" . I say "NO" walking and watching him behind me.

    He moves toward me following me.

    Tall man "I only need like 40 cents".

    I say "No ,Bro" and open up the door to the door to my vehicle and get in as fast as I could.

    Soon as I got in my truck I put my hand on my holstered weapon, ready to draw. Tall guy that did have a weapon at some point was in the middle of my vehicle.

    He walked away and I drove away.


    1. The game changer was I knew he had a weapon at some point.

    2. Tall man did not with draw of begging or whatever he was doing after 2 "NO".

    3. I did not see a weapon in his hand. *did not care at that point in time, attempting for escape or barrier or fight* I knew he had a weapon about 44 seconds ago.

    4. He stopped advancing, once I was in my vehicle....Thank Jello.

    5. If never had seen a weapon, I would not have been so concerned, that concerns me.

    P.S. I work in much rougher areas at night and I'm not allowed to carry. Well I can have a screwdriver , flashlight and I keep my situation awareness on. No knives either...very difficult to be an electrician with out a knife.

    P.S.S. Wrote this after drinking all 6 beer
     

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    Wow,, a man asks you for some cash and it scares you ?? Maybe you should not stop at a liquor store in a crappy neighborhood...
    You should also rethink when your thinking about." Pulling your weapon "

    And maybe not post after a sixpack......
     

    possum_128

    Master
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    13   0   0
    Mar 21, 2008
    2,487
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    Martinsville area
    Wow,, a man asks you for some cash and it scares you ?? Maybe you should not stop at a liquor store in a crappy neighborhood...
    You should also rethink when your thinking about." Pulling your weapon "

    I guess you missed the part that he had seen the man with a weapon and that said man was following him and all you got was he was scared by a man who wanted change??? Wow.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Wow,, a man asks you for some cash and it scares you ?? Maybe you should not stop at a liquor store in a crappy neighborhood...
    You should also rethink when your thinking about." Pulling your weapon "

    Have you "EVER" been in this situation. It is the oldest ploy in the book to get close enough to grab/stab or shoot you. Yes, it is and should be scary.
    Hey "Bro"....you got a cigarette is the code word for get ready.

    I have also spent a "Lot" of time in area described by the OP. My job took me into those areas at all hours. Not all the locals were scary but none of them had signs stating 'I am really a cool drunk guy" so yes.....SA at all times and yes, I have had my sidearm out more than I care to put a number on.

    Yes, I guess I am a bully.
     

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
    I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
    There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
    I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
    There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.

    Guess you just had to be there huh.

    Might have saved a life last week at the shell station on west 10th st. Hey "Bro"....you got a cigarette.....got close...bang.
    You can give all you want to those who hang out with a 40 in hand looking for sheep to pray upon. Me.....not so much.
     
    Last edited:

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
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    Well Church, 11 years as a Marine and then 22 years in LE... Now I am a retired, I spent my LE career inside Washington DC and Baltimore Md..
    So yes I HAVE been there a few times in my life.
     

    CindyE

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    7   0   0
    Jul 19, 2011
    3,036
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    north/central IN
    He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
    I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
    There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.

    How do you know he was only a bum seeking money? OP was alone, there were 2 guys, and the big guy didn't leave him alone after being told "NO" twice. I think his actions were appropriate.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    Well Church, 11 years as a Marine and then 22 years in LE... Now I am a retired, I spent my LE career inside Washington DC and Baltimore Md..
    So yes I HAVE been there a few times in my life.

    Well there you go.
    1st...thank you for your service. On both sides.
    2nd...I see these guys every day. My wife was approached last summer and scared to the point she removed her carry weapon and ran the 2 idiots off. She was at a Speedway gas station. If I say "No" that should be an indicator I am not interested. 2nd "No" puts me confrontational. I will not let any one I do not know close in these situations. Just my opinion.

    Again, Thank you for your service.
     

    AA&E

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    1   0   0
    Mar 4, 2014
    1,701
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    Southern Indiana
    Well Church, 11 years as a Marine and then 22 years in LE... Now I am a retired, I spent my LE career inside Washington DC and Baltimore Md..
    So yes I HAVE been there a few times in my life.

    Given law enforcements propensity of killing innocent unarmed citizens for offenses ranging from selling single cigarettes to seatbelt violations, I somehow question your expertise on matters regarding self control and escalation of force. I also question your having survived a career in law enforcement for any amount of time if you held yourself to the same rules of engagement as you did the OP. If I were in the same situation I would have been equally concerned. The guy was simulating an act of violence with a weapon less then two minutes prior to approaching him. If that isn't a reason to elevate your awareness and assert yourself, I don't know what is.
     

    Bobby

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    1   0   0
    Oct 14, 2008
    763
    28
    Muncie/New Castle
    Well Church, 11 years as a Marine and then 22 years in LE... Now I am a retired, I spent my LE career inside Washington DC and Baltimore Md..
    So yes I HAVE been there a few times in my life.

    The OP stated that there was a drunk guy tapping on the exterior of the liquor store with some sort of spike. This drunk guy approaches the OP a few seconds later with the oldest ploy on the books prior to a mugging, i.e. asking for a light, a few dollars, etc. He also ignores the OP's first order to cease his advances. While I don't think it was time to draw a weapon, I think the OP would have been a fool to not try and keep some distance between him and the drunken individual.

    Frankly, for a retired LEO who has been there a few times like you have claimed, I am a little surprised at how you are making light of the OP's concern for his physical safety. In my opinion, the conditions were "right" for things to get bad quickly. I don't see where the OP did anything wrong by making an effort to keep on high alert in order to avoid making things easy for a possible mugger.
     

    Cemetery-man

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    2   0   0
    Oct 26, 2009
    2,999
    38
    Bremen
    OP, you had every right to be concerned. Legitimate threat or not you went home and enjoyed your family. You can never be too cautious.

    He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
    I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
    There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.

    Good advice to end up with a good mugging, robbed or worse, dead!
     

    calcot7

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    11   0   0
    Dec 12, 2008
    2,571
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    Indy N Side
    How do you know he was intoxicated at the time of his post. He may be 6'10" and weigh 290 lbs and if that is the case I doubt if 6 beers would have that much affect on him.
    He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
    I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
    There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.
     

    Hoosierdood

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    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,425
    149
    North of you
    I had a guy approach me the other night at a dark gas station as I exited my vehicle. He came up and said that he was trying to get home and asked if I had $3 for a gallon of gas. I looked him up and down, made careful observation of his hands... then I told him to pull up to pump #1 and i would go in and prepay for $3 of gas. He thanked me and that was it.

    I didn't put my hand on my gun or run away.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    I had a guy approach me the other night at a dark gas station as I exited my vehicle. He came up and said that he was trying to get home and asked if I had $3 for a gallon of gas. I looked him up and down, made careful observation of his hands... then I told him to pull up to pump #1 and i would go in and prepay for $3 of gas. He thanked me and that was it.

    I didn't put my hand on my gun or run away.

    Seriously.....you were not in an area described by the OP.
     

    BiscuitNaBasket

    Grandmaster
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    73   1   0
    Dec 27, 2011
    15,855
    113
    Greenwood
    OP, I don't think you did anything wrong. Putting your hand on your holstered weapon is not a crime despite what some want you to believe.

    Good Situational Awareness. Good use of your car to get out of harm's way.

    Question: what would you have done if the guy had started banging on your car or attempting to break in through the window? Was it dark outside? would have been better to stay inside the store and let the employee know that there is a man outside with a weapon loitering around the front? what about when you first saw the guy and thought you saw a weapon... You could have turned around going back in your car and went to the next liquor store down the street I assume but why didn't you?
     
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