Why I'm voting Trump in the Indiana Primary...

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  • jamil

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    I'll play devil's advocate and say that direct system would be worse over the long haul. It is would be more prone to whim and temporary popularity.

    A direct system would make more Trumps.

    (We're talking party nomination, right, not general election?)

    Direct, rank-order voting would sure fix a lot of problems for primaries. But Parties have a right to decide how they want to choose their candidates. The general election pretty much requires each party to choose nominees to run against each other in a first-past-the-post manner. The nominees have to get chosen somehow, right? All the states voting for candidates by popular vote is a fairly recent thing.

    But, if we changed the way we do general election, such that parties don't really have to choose nominees--they could run as many as they can get "qualified".

    The way it would work is we start election season 6 months, maybe a year at most from election day. All the candidates who want to run would have to pass some kind of qualification. We would want it to be stringent enough so that we don't have too many candidates. At a minimum they'd have to be on the ballot in all 50 states to be considered. Having a minimum education level achieved probably wouldn't be a bad criterion given the complexity of government. Possibly some military experience.

    Candidates would campaign during the season, and then on election day you rank all the candidates that qualify, regardless of party. It achieves a few things. You don't have to tell each political party how it must choose it's nominee, because that process is no longer needed. In fact, it effectively eliminates the two party system because people no longer have to vote strategically. There's less incentive to vote for the party and more incentive to vote for individuals regardless of their party. It is more representative of what people want because it considers how each candidate fares against each other candidate.

    And your worries that a direct system would make more Trumps, probably not. If we had that system now probably Trump would be middle of the pack. He'd get a lot of #1 votes--still no where near a majority though--but because of his negatives, he would also get a lot more last place votes.

    Of course INGO has a Cruz bias, but the polling I did was a good example how that works. Trump had a lot of #1 votes. He had even more bottom-third votes. And he had very few 2nd and 3rd place votes.

    That kind of thing would change how candidates campaign. They would no longer need to pander to a base for primaries and then shift to the center for the general election. They can all be who they are from the start. The only advantage being a large party would bring is backing and being able to field more candidates.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Right. The Colorado GOP, who tweeted, from their official Twitter account, "We did it! #NeverTrump", is going to be fair and impartial in determining the will of the people with respect to method of primary.

    No, I'm saying just the opposite. In some states, the people have greater control over delegate selection, through primary preference votes - but in other states, the party has the greater control. For supporters of Candidate A in the former states, the delegate selection of the latter states suppresses support for Candidate A, on the whim of the party.

    And the CO GOP immediately stated that it wasn't them that sent that tweet. That they had been "hacked". I honestly have no idea of how Twitter works, or how many people have access to the CO GOP account.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you believe the people should have control over the delegate selection process, correct? At least to a large degree. If so you should be for the CO system. All of the delegates except iirc 3 were chosen by the people during the caucus.

    Interesting. I think I would consider limiting the number of super delegates to some relatively small percentage of the whole, though (perhaps 10% - enough to sway the outcome but never determine it outright)

    Technically the GOP doesn't have "super delegates" that is a Dem thing. The GOP has bound and unbound which are determined by state (and territory) rules as to which. How many unbound does the GOP have? I honestly don't know.
     

    jamil

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    Some do, the Libertarian party for example. Others such as the Repubs and Dems may not have that option. For instance IN law requires them to have the primaries that they do.
    Injist think that's an unholy amalgamation between government and privat political interests. Election laws should be party agnostic.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Injist think that's an unholy amalgamation between government and privat political interests. Election laws should be party agnostic.

    IN law requires that parties that receive 10% or more of the votes for sec of state have to participate in the primary. It doesn't reference parties by name.
     

    chipbennett

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    And the CO GOP immediately stated that it wasn't them that sent that tweet. That they had been "hacked". I honestly have no idea of how Twitter works, or how many people have access to the CO GOP account.

    Yes, the go-to excuse for posting undesirable crap on Twitter: the account was hacked.

    [video=youtube;75fyFAh29XY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fyFAh29XY[/video]

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you believe the people should have control over the delegate selection process, correct? At least to a large degree. If so you should be for the CO system. All of the delegates except iirc 3 were chosen by the people during the caucus.

    I want a consistent system that solicits and respects the intent of the voters.

    Technically the GOP doesn't have "super delegates" that is a Dem thing. The GOP has bound and unbound which are determined by state (and territory) rules as to which. How many unbound does the GOP have? I honestly don't know.

    For all intents and purposes, the GOP's party leader unbound delegates are identical to the Democrat party's "super-delegates".
     

    BugI02

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    I cannot at this moment remember where I read it, but the thought was something like the greater the similarity of the nominee selection process to an election the more the people will expect their vote to count and be heeded by the party. Holding a primary certainly seems to elicit an expectation by the participants that the results will matter
     

    skulhedface

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    Anybody think maybe those match up polls put Trump exactly where he wants to be....underestimated. Kind of like he simply must have been too stupid to figure out how Colorado caucuses worked, but magically smart enough to figure out how to paint Ted Cruz as an establishment, insider, GOP darling right before the home stretch of the delegate race. Wonder how many delegates he gained by sacrificing those 37. I'm voting for Trump because he's outsmarted the media, the GOP, 15 other candidates and I'm guessing he'll outsmart Hillary too.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    I want a consistent system that solicits and respects the intent of the voters.

    For all intents and purposes, the GOP's party leader unbound delegates are identical to the Democrat party's "super-delegates".

    What do you mean by a consistent system? You mean each state rules are identical? Or consistent in each state?

    How does the CO caucus for example not "solicits and respects the intent of the voters"?

    I believe there are 3 party leader delegates per state, I think some are bound and some are unbound. Same as the other delegates.
     

    MisterChester

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    What do you mean by a consistent system? You mean each state rules are identical? Or consistent in each state?

    How does the CO caucus for example not "solicits and respects the intent of the voters"?

    I believe there are 3 party leader delegates per state, I think some are bound and some are unbound. Same as the other delegates.

    If Republican voters pick one candidate and the party bosses pick another, something is wrong.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    Bleh... our usually nice-looking neighborhood entrance has been sullied today.

    The first house on the entry road, the nice house that gives off a good first impression... which has always looked nice and neutral ever since we've lived here.... is now all dressed up with 10 Trump yard signs and various other "MAGA" gear.

    hhhnnngg.
     

    Route 45

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    Bleh... our usually nice-looking neighborhood entrance has been sullied today.

    The first house on the entry road, the nice house that gives off a good first impression... which has always looked nice and neutral ever since we've lived here.... is now all dressed up with 10 Trump yard signs and various other "MAGA" gear.

    hhhnnngg.

    anoind.jpg
     

    mikem1

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    that's how I feel . done voted for Cruz and don't feel bad about it . Trump and his supporters sound a lot like Obama and his zombies . we have seen the damage someone with a huge ego has already done to this country . not a good idea to do that again .
     

    tbhausen

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    Well there we have it... Indiana voters have spoken loudly and clearly, probably nailing the lid on the coffin of the Cruz campaign. We've got what we've got...
     

    LPMan59

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    that's how I feel . done voted for Cruz and don't feel bad about it . Trump and his supporters sound a lot like Obama and his zombies . we have seen the damage someone with a huge ego has already done to this country . not a good idea to do that again .

    that's exactly right. most of them have no idea who trump is, where he came from, what he supports or has supported. "Lyin' Ted!" is all I hear.

    They're all about buzz words- make America great again!!! Hope and change!!!

    Is Cruz perfect? no. But we actually had a true conservative running and somehow we chose a New York Liberal. :(

    I can't believe that so many people on a gun board could support someone who has been openly anti-2A over a guy who successfully defended the 2A in front of the SCOTUS. :rolleyes:
     

    Bradsknives

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    So, now we have a choice in the general election of voting for a liberal or a liberal that is pretending to be a conservative......one of Trump's key strategies from his book (The Art Of The Deal) is to make the “other side” believe you are on their side....Trump has fooled a lot of people.
     

    Super Bee

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    that's exactly right. most of them have no idea who trump is, where he came from, what he supports or has supported. "Lyin' Ted!" is all I hear.

    They're all about buzz words- make America great again!!! Hope and change!!!

    Is Cruz perfect? no. But we actually had a true conservative running and somehow we chose a New York Liberal. :(

    I can't believe that so many people on a gun board could support someone who has been openly anti-2A over a guy who successfully defended the 2A in front of the SCOTUS. :rolleyes:



    I could not have said it better myself. Rep sent your way.
     
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