Where did you OC today thread: Part 2

[Wstar425]

Open carried on Monday into city hall to pay our water bill. Just stopped off on our dog walk around town. Dog got a couple of compliments, nothing said about the other thing. Swinging past the local ice cream place and got a bottle of water. They bring it out to me since no animals allowed inside. Pretty slow, too cold.

Stopped on the way home and talked to my neighbor, who fought in WWII in Patton’s second Armored Division. Interesting guy, but needs some new material. He’s going to be 90 sometime this summer and still mows his own yard and this last winter ran the walk behind snowblower. I noticed a shear pin was broken on his auger as I walked by with the dog, stopped and talked to him and actually went and got one and fixed it for him. He’s been my buddy ever since!

What did the French say about the American soldiers? Over fed, over sexed, and over here. According to him anyway.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

I OC'd today at the McDonalds on 14th and Jackson in Anderson. Seems there is a parole office or something near there and there were as many convicts in there as the county jail today. Guess I won't be going back with my kids either.

 

[JettaKnight]

All around the Ft. W. courthouse (outside), and into Pint 'n Slice for some delicious pizza.

 

[actaeon277]

Open carried on Monday into city hall to pay our water bill. Just stopped off on our dog walk around town. Dog got a couple of compliments, nothing said about the other thing. Swinging past the local ice cream place and got a bottle of water. They bring it out to me since no animals allowed inside. Pretty slow, too cold.

Stopped on the way home and talked to my neighbor, who fought in WWII in Patton’s second Armored Division. Interesting guy, but needs some new material. He’s going to be 90 sometime this summer and still mows his own yard and this last winter ran the walk behind snowblower. I noticed a shear pin was broken on his auger as I walked by with the dog, stopped and talked to him and actually went and got one and fixed it for him. He’s been my buddy ever since!

What did the French say about the American soldiers? Over fed, over sexed, and over here. According to him anyway.

I think the British said that.
And for helping a vet.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Lady got behind me in line at Rickers and said "Well I know I'm safe here for the next few minutes" with a smile.

Heh, that was a new one, flattering

 

[actaeon277]

She thinks your tractor's sexy

 

[Wstar425]

I think the British said that.
And for helping a vet.

Apparently, you are correct about Britain. Plus, it’s overpaid, oversexed, over here. I might have not heard him correctly. I know he was in France, not GB, but suspect some of the stories might have gotten more “interesting” over the years.

Funny story, his wife had a stroke and was in a care unit not too far from where my Mom lives. I visit her once a month and offered to give him a ride there and back, since he only drives in town. So, putting that together he said his daughter, a VP at our bank (which I OC into once a week) wanted to meet me and check me out, I guess. (I’m 60) So, I stopped there and she laughed when she saw me, and put two and two together. I gave him a couple of rides there and back, while his wife was there. He’s an interesting guy, always invites me to play Bingo with his gang at Hardee’s. I’d like to think I’m a little ways from that yet, still working 55-60 hour weeks and driving 2000 miles or so.

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

Needed to make a last minute grocery run before the family BBQ, shredded carrots and potatoes and some other small stuff. Decided I would open carry to Kroger (northside of Bloomington). I can count on one hand the number of times I've open carried so this is out of the norm for me.

Ruger GP100 Match Champion in a Speedbeez holster.

Was in and out in probably 15 minutes or less. It was pretty busy in there -- a lot of quick glances, a couple of funny faces. No comments or questions though.

Overall pretty positive. I think I'll open carry more often but it's tricky on IU campus so it will probably only be off campus... until the day I'm no longer officially affiliated with the university, that is.

 

[newtothis]

dude. You misspelled “babysitter”. Security guards have guns.

Apparently not a very good one either. Some would consider the baton smacking to be menacing... what’s the saying... don’t bring a baton to an Aldi’s Fight.... I think that’s right. At least it wasn’t a Cubs’ (I miss that store).

 

[d.kaufman]

Open carried at the parade last night. All those cops just drove right by me

 

[2A_Tom]

Lately, I have been getting a lot of feedback. More than I have ever gotten before.

"Cool, what kind of gun is that?" "Cool is that a 1911?" "Cool is that a Colt 45?" Just in the last couple of weeks.

Several good conversations ensued.

 

[actaeon277]

Lately, I have been getting a lot of feedback. More than I have ever gotten before.

"Cool, what kind of gun is that?" "Cool is that a 1911?" "Cool is that a Colt 45?" Just in the last couple of weeks.

Several good conversations ensued.

Stop whipping it out.
Leave in in the holster.

 

[2A_Tom]

Do I really look like Blind Melon Chitlin?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Ricker's today. Cashier familiar with me asked what I do, I responded "IT"

She got to talking about how she has a degree in IT, builds her own gaming computers, etc. As I was leaving, other cashier... "IT? You said IT? Do all IT people carry a pistol?" then laughed.

I think the customer in line also said something, but I didn't catch it.

Good times.

 

[Ziggidy]

Ruger GP100 Match Champion in a Speedbeez holster.

I never saw that holster before and it looks pretty nice. How does it feel after a few hours?

 

[2A_Tom]

Sorry for the original unreadable enblock format.

Today when I went to the library, I was informed that I was not permitted to carry a firearm on the premises.

I informed the young lady that that was against state law.

Her response was that it was library policy and that she had to enforce it.

We actually had a good discussion and she gave me a copy of the policy. When I got home I sat down and read it and found that she was confused by the legal department and their legalease. The twists, convolutions and outright misstatements are appalling.

It seems that this was written specifically to mislead.

The young Lady was totally professional and polite at all times.

Here is the portion that needs revision. The misquotes and misrepresentations are marked and the actual 2019 IC is included. The Preemption law has been in effect since June 1, 2011.

Included in the Lake County Public Library, Patron Rules and Conduct Policy is this section.

DANGEROUS WEAPONS POLICY

Except for law enforcement officers, possessing on library property any dangerous weapon, including but not limited to the following items, regardless of any permit for the same: knife, billy club blackjack, nunchucks, throwing star, martial arts weapon, pellet or BB gun, paint ball gun, dart gun or electrical device designed to disable or incapacitate someone is prohibited. An individual may possess a chemical spray, such as mace, as long as such a device is carried only for personal self-defense and is not brandished about or displayed in an aggressive or threatening manner.

An individual who possesses a valid permit or who otherwise is legally authorized may possess a firearm, provided that said individual complies with this policy. All individuals possessing firearms on library premises must comply with state and federal law and also must comply with the following provisions. Failure to comply with these rules will result in removal the library premises.

• Handgun possession – Ind. Code § 35-47-2-1. No person may possess a handgun on library property or inside the library building(“Library Premises”) unless they also possess a valid permit [license] to carry a handgun in the State of Indiana. Any person carrying a handgun on Library Premises must provide proof of license if requested by law enforcement personnel.
• Criminal recklessness – Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2. All firearms carried on Library Premises must be secured in a manner which prevents potential injury or serious bodily harm to any other person or property.
• Criminal Recklessness - Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2 and Pointing a Firearm – Ind. Code § 35-47-4-3. No person may point, brandish or display a firearm in any manner that is intended to threaten or intimidate any patron or library staff member.

· Criminal Recklessness – Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2. Persons may not carry a firearm in any manner which violates Indiana’s Criminal Recklessness Statute.

I suppose I’ll start with the fact that the Library is a political subdivision and is preempted by the state from making any rules, policies or regulations concerning the carry of firearms.

IC 35-47-11.1-2Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

As for the rules, I will break it down and point out the errors.

Except for law enforcement officers, possessing on library property any dangerous weapon, including but not limited to the following items, regardless of any permit for the same:

This line is obviously intended to mislead uninformed people to believe that only LEO may carry in the library.

knife, billy club blackjack, nunchucks, throwing star, martial arts weapon, pellet or BB gun, paint ball gun, dart gun or electrical device designed to disable or incapacitate someone is prohibited.

For obvious reasons firearm was left off of this list.

An individual may possess a chemical spray, such as mace, as long as such a device is carried only for personal self-defense and is not brandished about or displayed in an aggressive or threatening manner.

Mace is very difficult to obtain. Oleoresin Pepper spray is in common use today.

An individual who possesses a valid permit or who otherwise is legally authorized may possess a firearm, provided that said individual complies with this policy. All individuals possessing firearms on library premises must comply with state and federal law and also must comply with the following provisions. Failure to comply with these rules will result in removal the library premises.

Scrap the rest.

• Handgun possession – Ind. Code § 35-47-2-1. No person may possess a handgun on library property or inside the library building (“Library Premises”) unless they also possess a valid permit to carry a handgun in the State of Indiana. Any person carrying a handgun on Library Premises must provide proof of license if requested by law enforcement personnel.

The portions highlighted in red are not law and should be removed. I did include IC 35-47-2-24 which is the only reference to proving that you have a license. The only thing you are required to give to the police is your name, address and date of birth and that only if they have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion or Probable Cause of a crime. The Indiana Supreme Court has declared that the mere presence of a gun does not meet these standards.

• Criminal recklessness – Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2. All firearms carried on Library Premises must be secured in a manner which prevents potential injury or serious bodily harm to any other person or property.

Same as above.

• Criminal Recklessness - Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2 and Pointing a Firearm – Ind. Code § 35-47-4-3. No person may point, brandish or display a firearm [at a person] in any manner that is intended to threaten or intimidate any patron or library staff member.

Just the facts please, the word brandish is not used in IC.

• Criminal Recklessness – Ind. Code § 35-42-2-2. Persons may not carry a firearm in any manner which violates Indiana’s Criminal Recklessness Statute.

Indiana Code does not regulate how a firearm is carried. The use of IC 35-42-2-2 to attempt to say that there is statute that covers this.

As gun owners we believe that everyone that carries should be as safe and informed as they possibly can.

IC 35-47-2-1 Carrying a handgun without being licensed; exceptions; person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and sections 2 through 2.1 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), a person may carry a handgun without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun if:
(1) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person;
(2) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body while lawfully present in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by another person, if the person:
(A) has the consent of the owner, renter, lessor, or person who legally controls the property to have the handgun on the premises;
(B) is attending a firearms related event on the property, including a gun show, firearms expo, gun owner's club or convention, hunting club, shooting club, or training course; or
(C) is on the property to receive firearms related services, including the repair, maintenance, or modification of a firearm;
(3) the person carries the handgun in a vehicle that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person, if the handgun is:
(A) unloaded;
(B) not readily accessible; and
(C) secured in a case;
(4) the person carries the handgun while lawfully present in a vehicle that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by another person, if the handgun is:
(A) unloaded;
(B) not readily accessible; and
(C) secured in a case;
(5) the person carries the handgun:
(A) at a shooting range (as defined in IC 14-22-31.5-3);
(B) while attending a firearms instructional course; or
(C) while engaged in a legal hunting activity; or
(6) the person is permitted to carry a handgun without a license under section 2.1 of this chapter (persons protected by a protection order).
(c) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun.
(d) This section may not be construed:
(1) to prohibit a person who owns, leases, rents, or otherwise legally controls private property from regulating or prohibiting the possession of firearms on the private property;
(2) to allow a person to adopt or enforce an ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule that:
(A) prohibits; or
(B) has the effect of prohibiting;
an employee of the person from possessing a firearm or ammunition that is locked in the trunk of the employee's vehicle, kept in the glove compartment of the employee's locked vehicle, or stored out of plain sight in the employee's locked vehicle, unless the person's adoption or enforcement of the ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule is allowed under IC 34-28-7-2(b); or
(3) to allow a person to adopt or enforce a law, statute, ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule that allows a person to possess or transport a firearm or ammunition if the person is prohibited from possessing or transporting the firearm or ammunition by state or federal law.
(e) A person who knowingly or intentionally violates this section commits a Class A misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Level 5 felony:
(1) if the offense is committed:
(A) on or in school property;
(B) within five hundred (500) feet of school property; or
(C) on a school bus; or
(2) if the person:
(A) has a prior conviction of any offense under:
(i) this section; or
(ii) section 22 of this chapter; or
(B) has been convicted of a felony within fifteen (15) years before the date of the offense.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35; P.L.164-2011, SEC.1; P.L.6-2012, SEC.231; P.L.158-2013, SEC.573; P.L.221-2017, SEC.1.

IC 35-47-2-24 Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


IC 35-47-4-3 Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Level 6 felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2. Amended by P.L.158-2013, SEC.589.

IC 35-42-2-2 Criminal recklessness; element of hazing; liability barred for good faith report or judicial participation
Sec. 2. (a) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally performs an act that creates a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person commits criminal recklessness. Except as provided in subsection (b), criminal recklessness is a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) The offense of criminal recklessness as defined in subsection (a) is:
(1) a Level 6 felony if,
(A) it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon; or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in subsection (a) is:
(1) a Level 6 felony if:
(A) it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon; or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55) that results in serious bodily injury to another person; or
(2) a Level 5 felony if:
(A) it is committed by shooting a firearm into an inhabited dwelling or other building or place where people are likely to gather; or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55) that results in the death or catastrophic injury of another person.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.31; Acts 1981, P.L.300, SEC.1; P.L.323-1987, SEC.1; P.L.216-1996, SEC.17; P.L.1-2003, SEC.94; P.L.75-2006, SEC.3; P.L.158-2013, SEC.423; P.L.184-2019, SEC.11.


CC:Ingrid Norris, Director
Erika, Merrillville Branch Head
Jon, Cedar Lake Branch Head
Chris, Dyer-Schererville Branch Head
Beth, Griffith-Calumet Twp Branch Head
Linda, Highland Branch Head
Rachel, Hobart Branch Head
Julie, Lake Station-New Chicago Branch Head
Susan, Munster Branch Head
Holly, St. John Branch Head

 

[actaeon277]

Handgun possession – Ind. Code § 35-47-2-1. No person may possess a handgun on library property or inside the library building(“Library Premises”) unless they also possess a valid permit [license] to carry a handgun in the State of Indiana


Here you go.
Says we can.

 

[2A_Tom]

I know that and you know that, but I could not convince the young lady.

 

[actaeon277]

Maybe she was just hoping for a dance.


[video=youtube;mM4tHTXpnZM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM4tHTXpnZM[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

Reply from library.

Mr. Tom Thank you for your email. I attempted to phone you this morning but there was no answer. I thank you for your response to the incident yesterday. I want to ensure you that although the clerk was polite and professional, she also relayed our library policy incorrectly. We do not enforce a firearm ban or go against Indiana state law. I apologize for any miscommunication you received via this employee. I have also forwarded your provided information to our administration so that they can look into your suggestions further. We welcome your next visit to our library and thank you for your patronage.

Sincerely,
Beth Alyea
Branch Head/Griffith-Calumet Twp

I also had a call from the head of administration and she assured me that all staff will be informed that the policy will be changed.

She has forwarded it to their lawyers for revision which will need to be approved by the board and will most likely take a couple of month before published.

Thanks Carol.