What Do You Carry as Your Non-Lethal, Self-Defense Option?

[Amishman44]

A majority of "escalated situations" do not call for use of lethal force. In fact, you could very well jeopardize your freedom and/or wealth even when it's obvious that you were in the right. Remember, the burden of proof will always be on you to justify any use of lethal force. This is why I always carry pepper gel on the opposite hip of my concealed short arm. I prefer gel over spray because gel can travel farther and there's a reduced chance of cross-contamination and blowback. Although I usually don't, you should carry pepper spray/get decontaminate (DIY or "store bought"), as well.
I'm very interested in your comments and opinions. Thank you.

One of the biggest problems out there is that simple engagements can often escalate so quickly or dramatically that there's no time for 'evaluated' responses...and we, often, cannot control the degree or level of escalation as portrayed by the other individual.
Law enforcement is trained to address escalating situations, using de-escalation techniques, including Verbal Judo, but that doesn't guarantee the other individual will respond appropriately to the technique or comply?
I'm at the point in life where I neither want to nor have a desire to engage with individuals who're agitated, aggravated, or ill-will bent on doing damage to another individual who may cross their path.
I'm more into the keeping the head on a swivel, identify and/or assess situations that could go badly, take necessary steps to avoid, evade, or egress...and keep / maintain space between myself and others intent on causing harm to others.
Use of force issues are something to avoid, if possible, and kept in reserve unless absolutely necessary to prevent imminent grave bodily harm and/or death of myself or a loved one!
Situational awareness is one of the key elements in a good self-defense program...and it's a learned skill that can be practiced daily!

 

[Amishman44]

Must read. You may learn something.
When you lock eyes the very first thing you need to do it indicate you have a weapon. It doesn’t matter if you do or not. If you are a woman put your gun hand in your purse and keep it there. If you are a man fan your shirt or coat tail with your gun hand. Make it clear to dude you are mentally prepared to draw and making sure your gun is clear. This will many times result in an about face by dude. It is the single best robbery avoidance tactic IMHO.
https://homeguntraining.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/street-robberies-and-you-the-basics/

An interesting read...and from 2014.
And the information is still relevant today!

 

[daddyusmaximus]

My hands.


I can try to fight someone off If I feel my life is not in danger. That's "less than lethal". All other weapons are, or have the potential of being, lethal, depending on how they are used, so I just carry the one I'm best at defending my life with... a handgun.


If I can't fight off a threat with empty hands... it's gonna get noisy.


Yes, I always have a blade on me too, but again... lethal... and I'm better with the bullet launcher.

 

[tv1217]

I once had a homeless man in Gary try to reach in to my car at a stoplight when I told him I didn't have any change for him(In hindsight I think he was going for the change in the cupholder) I grabbed the first large hard-ish object(an unopened can of Monster on my passenger seat) and smacked him in the side of the head with it. So I'd say your best non lethal defenses is probably being able to think quickly and use what's available.

 

[druckernut]

A majority of "escalated situations" do not call for use of lethal force. In fact, you could very well jeopardize your freedom and/or wealth even when it's obvious that you were in the right. Remember, the burden of proof will always be on you to justify any use of lethal force. This is why I always carry pepper gel on the opposite hip of my concealed short arm. I prefer gel over spray because gel can travel farther and there's a reduced chance of cross-contamination and blowback. Although I usually don't, you should carry pepper spray/get decontaminate (DIY or "store bought"), as well.

I'm very interested in your comments and opinions. Thank yo

A majority of "escalated situations" do not call for use of lethal force. In fact, you could very well jeopardize your freedom and/or wealth even when it's obvious that you were in the right. Remember, the burden of proof will always be on you to justify any use of lethal force. This is why I always carry pepper gel on the opposite hip of my concealed short arm. I prefer gel over spray because gel can travel farther and there's a reduced chance of cross-contamination and blowback. Although I usually don't, you should carry pepper spray/get decontaminate (DIY or "store bought"), as well.

I'm very interested in your comments and opinions. Thank you.

Hello all and sincere apologies for being so tardy in responding/participating. Between work and caring/supporting my friend of 40+ years as she battles an illness that has no second place trophy keeps me very occupied, and just plain exhausted.

I will address overall views/thoughts in this post as well as reply to some other posts directly.

It seems more and more frequently I watch or read stories about citizens using a firearm in self defense, legally, only to be prosecuted by politicized or overzealous DAs. Even if the if the person wins his/her case, s/he loses bc of the tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and court costs. This was the main drive for me to decide to carry a non-lethal option as well.

An escalated situation doesn't mean someone is under imminent threat (i.e., you must believe death or serious physical harm could occur within a short time(1)). A shoving match is a good example. A whole lot more can be said about implementing a non-lethal option that it's best we debate this in person over beers and pops. I'm game. :-)

Whether you decide to carry or not carry a non-lethal option is up to you. Just remember, IMO, the two most important steps in avoiding armed conflict is situational awareness(2) and de-escalation. The best fight won is always the one that never occurred.

(1) www.lawinsider.com
(2) See Amishman44's excellent post (#61) in this thread.

 

[Biggredchev]

I carry a leatherman Wingman everywhere. If need arises itll give a heck of a purple nurple.

 

[druckernut]

I'm not aware of any law that says I have to engage someone on their terms. One solid punch could cause yours or my demise. I'm not about to see how that may be true. If an idiot is obvious they wish to do me harm, regardless of their implementation, I will use any means necessary to stop it... quickly and final. I don't burden myself with non-lethal items.

Unless the perp is so overpowering that he can make mince meat out of me without even trying, I would consider a non-lethal action first.

 

[druckernut]

Even though Indiana HAS passed it`s version of "Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine", and we`re no longer mandated by government to attempt to run away before using force, I have to believe that if at ALL possible, we`d still be better off to do everything possible to flee a situation before using ANY level of force. That being said, some possibly are like me and couldn`t run to save their souls, and so, those like me are probably forced to use some level of force to defend ourselves from an attack. Of course, we do anything and everything we can to avoid being in a circumstance where we`d need to defend ourselves to begin with. Avoid bad areas, be willing to take the insult or allow someone else to have their way in order to avoid confrontation and conflict, to a point. But we know that if someone is determined to provoke an incident, it will happen. The thought of carrying a non-lethal alternative is interesting, and may have some merit. My only concern would be, if someone get`s caught up in trying to use the non-lethal force when they should have gone directly to the firearm, then end up seriously hurt, or dead. I think this highlights though, that everyone needs to have already thought through the possible scenarios they`re likely to encounter, and have pre-determined how they`ll respond to them. Training would be key, as well as the course that`s been discussed in other threads here regarding the laws in Indiana on the use of lethal force.

 

[druckernut]

If I am "cornered" with no escape the weapon is drawn, immediately.

 

[druckernut]

POM OC spray.

Less than lethal is most certainly part of my EDC mindset. I can think of several scenarios when somebody might need to be blessed by the hot sauce but not shot. Especially if the threat isn't directly targeting me, but causing problems for someone else or the general public. An drunk idiot beating on his lady comes to mind. Or someone gets belligerent at a gas station, retail store. Aggressive panhandler, etc.

People can and do get froggy without becoming a deadly threat. I want something in between a firearm and a harsh word.


Can anyone tell I watch a lot of Active Self Protection videos?

Well said.

 

[druckernut]

I hand them a letter strongly condemning their actions.

I prefer to f*rt in their general direction.

 

[Sylvain]

This ...




I also wear steel toe shoes at work.
People don't fight well without one of their knees.

 

[druckernut]

Screw that noise. I would suggest the OP take that line of crap somewhere else. If my life is threatened 'non lethal' is not on the table.

When I'm finished contacting the thousands and thousands of police officers who carry the same product as me we'll take our line of crap and go elsewhere. Unfortunately, I only have 1 rotary phone to use so it will take some time to complete.

 

[druckernut]

A .380

I like my P238 pea shooter. It has served me quite well.

 

[druckernut]

This ...


View attachment 144013

I also wear steel toe shoes at work.
People don't fight well without one of their knees.

...and it's extremely painful. It's one of my primary targets.

 

[druckernut]

What brand of pepper gel do you sell?

I don't sell any pepper spray/gel products. The spray gel product I buy and use is Sabre Red Pepper Gel Crossfire (this is not an endorsement).

 

[Sylvain]

...and it's extremely painful. It's one of my primary targets.

It's my secondary after a well placed steel toe boot to the nut sack.

 

[druckernut]

I carry the Sabre brand.

Sabre Red Pepper Gel Crossfire.

 

[druckernut]

It's my secondary after a well placed steel toe boot to the nut sack.

Absolutely!!!

Hwvr, my concern is [censored] size [censored] varies so one [censored] good eyesight and large [censored] which is a sign of one having a big a [censored].

 

[druckernut]

You start with a letter of condemnation? Shouldn't you start with a terse email, followed by a strongly worded memo BEFORE the letter of condemnation? That's how the UN does it after all.

OMGosh, Bill Lumbergh is that you?