What Do You Carry as Your Non-Lethal, Self-Defense Option?

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  • d.kaufman

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    Devil`s Advocate; what if they refuse to allow you to just walk away. They`re not threatening you with any life-threatening force, but, maybe are punching you, slapping you, shoving you...
    If they're not letting me leave and they are shoving and punching me, my life is In immediate danger, and I will use lethal force
     

    bwframe

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    My first thoughts this
    I have a assailant in front of me, things are getting serious, i have a sidearm, pepper spray, spring loaded baton, what do i think first non lethal - i pull the pepper spray out prepare to spray, assailant grabs my arm i spray myself oops, now he has the spray and unloads it in my face, mouth til empty, throws me to the ground robs me finds the baton and beats me with it, checks my other pockets finds my sidearm , i'm gonna die now, instead the assailant kicks the heck out of me and leaves. good samaritan calls 911 since the assailant took my cell also, police showed, assailant no where to be found, trip to emergency room, couple days later detective from police force shows up to let me know they have my sidearm and that it was used in a killing in a robbery! just one scenario to think about
    This is exactly why you need to train with your self-defense device. Take a class or three on non-lethal tools. At the very least, watch a :poop: load of Youtube on the subject.

    Your mentioned scenario is not at all uncommon. It compares to carrying your firearm, never having taken it to the range, much less a class.
     

    MCgrease08

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    I guess it depends on your definition of a "problem person". If it's not life threatening or no reason to believe you will sustain bodily injuries why stay around? That's just asking or looking for something.
    Here's a good example. You're on line at the BMV, bank, doctor's office, grocery store, whatever. Handful of other people and employees. Guy comes in visibly agitated. Maybe he got bad customer service, maybe his girl works there and she cheated on him. But his obviously ticked off and starts getting loud, yelling at employees or customers. He shoves people. Employees are asking him to leave and it's starting to escalate to the point where it warrants calling police. There's potential for this guy to get violent but it doesn't warrant deadly force yet.

    If his beef isn't with you, maybe you can just slip out the door and let police handle it if and when they arrive. (If they haven't been defunded). But who knows how capable the rest of the people in the room will be defending against him if he does get violent.

    In that scenario I'm hosing him down with the hot sauce and try to calm him down for the police.
     
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    cosermann

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    So how does one research the types, brands, and dilutions/strengths that might be appropriate.

    Start with their web sites, and follow-up with email if they're not posting useful information.
    Otherwise stick with a 1) reputable brand, 2) using a good delivery canister, 3) filled with a formulation having a major cap content of at least 0.7 up to around 2% or so (over 2% is fine, but likely won't feel any hotter or take effect quicker, so not really necessary is the current thinking).

    #3 is the only objective criteria you're likely to find documented by the mfg. The others are more subjective and experience-based. One kind of subjective criteria is that serious manufacturers also make inert training versions of their live product.

    Then. . . do some reading, watch some videos, get some training with respect to the tool and thinking on it's deployment, and practice with some inert and/or live canisters.

    One might also think about exposing oneself to some OC ahead of time. This does at least 3 things: 1) familiarizes you with the effect thus diffusing fear and helping you fight through if you're exposed, 2) strengthens your potential legal defense if you ever have to use it, and 3) helps you determine ahead of time if you're one of the few folks that have an allergy to OC. There are ways to do this that don't require a full shot to the face.
     

    Joniki

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    My daughter works with people all day not allowed to carry a firearm or knife. So I got her one of these. It's like a Kubotan/pen. Yes it hurts she tested a few spots on dad after dad told her places to hit. She didn't hit hard like in a self-defense situation but man that thing gets to a few nerves fast.


    View attachment 142967
    I had one of these taken from me by TSA. I had traveled with it for years. Now I carry a Zebra pen I can buy almost anywhere and have had zero problems.
     

    BigRed3588

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    My first thoughts this
    I have a assailant in front of me, things are getting serious, i have a sidearm, pepper spray, spring loaded baton, what do i think first non lethal - i pull the pepper spray out prepare to spray, assailant grabs my arm i spray myself oops, now he has the spray and unloads it in my face, mouth til empty, throws me to the ground robs me finds the baton and beats me with it, checks my other pockets finds my sidearm , i'm gonna die now, instead the assailant kicks the heck out of me and leaves. good samaritan calls 911 since the assailant took my cell also, police showed, assailant no where to be found, trip to emergency room, couple days later detective from police force shows up to let me know they have my sidearm and that it was used in a killing in a robbery! just one scenario to think about
    This is actually a very plausible scenario. I work in corrections and it isn't uncommon for an inmate to get ahold of an officer's OC and empty the entire canister into their face.
     

    OurDee

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    I have personal concerns about pepper spray. I have been sprayed and can tell you it will not always be the magic bullet you imagine. I highly recommend you seek out training prior to carrying it. For me, it caused an adrenaline dump inside me. "This stress hormone is created in the adrenal medulla, which is found in your adrenal glands. As your body responds to stress, adrenaline is made and released quickly. This gives you an adrenaline rush." I destroyed everything around me.
     

    Snapdragon

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    I have personal concerns about pepper spray. I have been sprayed and can tell you it will not always be the magic bullet you imagine. I highly recommend you seek out training prior to carrying it. For me, it caused an adrenaline dump inside me. "This stress hormone is created in the adrenal medulla, which is found in your adrenal glands. As your body responds to stress, adrenaline is made and released quickly. This gives you an adrenaline rush." I destroyed everything around me.
    And if you do spray an attacker, is that the kind of reaction you want him/her to have?
     

    OurDee

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    If I carried it, I'd hope the perp took it from me and sprayed me. Not that I like the shakes afterwards.
     

    cosermann

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    I usually carry a flip top dispenser in the 1.5ish oz neighborhood (unless I'm traveling somewhere that limits quantity). Look for something that has at least 0.7% major capsaicinoids up to around 2% in the final formulation (again unless you're planning to be somewhere that limits the formulation). Generally I avoid products for which I can't find the major capsaicinoid percentage of the final formulation. Marketing/sales info that only talks about the % OC or SHU of the initial resin isn't very helpful (and IMHO, indicates a vendor that isn't being transparent). Sabre, POM, and Fox all seem to offer some decent products.

    Another brand worth looking at (that I forgot to mention) is Defense Technologies.
     

    Squander

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    I guess if I want less than lethal I'll shoot them in the legs like Dementia Joe Biden says.

    “Instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there’s an unarmed person coming at ‘em with a knife or something, shoot ‘em in the leg instead of in the heart,” Biden said in an address to black community leaders in Wilmington, Del.

    Notice unarmed person with a knife or something but unarmed with whatever they are armed with. :nuts:

    View attachment 142864

    i’m pretty sure when Biden said “unarmed” he meant the guy had no arms, so give him a pass would ya?
     

    Thor

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    Could be anywhere
    I've been through a CS chamber in the army a couple of times. It's unpleasant but not debilitating.

    It did point out why a gas mask may be a good idea though.
     

    JCSR

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    Must read. You may learn something. :cool:

    When you lock eyes the very first thing you need to do it indicate you have a weapon. It doesn’t matter if you do or not. If you are a woman put your gun hand in your purse and keep it there. If you are a man fan your shirt or coat tail with your gun hand. Make it clear to dude you are mentally prepared to draw and making sure your gun is clear. This will many times result in an about face by dude. It is the single best robbery avoidance tactic IMHO.

    https://homeguntraining.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/street-robberies-and-you-the-basics/
     
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