What Do You Carry as Your Non-Lethal, Self-Defense Option?

[KG1]

I hand them a letter strongly condemning their actions.

 

[Snapdragon]

A majority of "escalated situations" do not call for use of lethal force. In fact, you could very well jeopardize your freedom and/or wealth even when it's obvious that you were in the right. Remember, the burden of proof will always be on you to justify any use of lethal force. This is why I always carry pepper gel on the opposite hip of my concealed short arm. I prefer gel over spray because gel can travel farther and there's a reduced chance of cross-contamination and blowback. Although I usually don't, you should carry pepper spray/get decontaminate (DIY or "store bought"), as well.

I'm very interested in your comments and opinions. Thank you.

What brand of pepper gel do you sell?

 

[Jeepster48439]

I hand them a letter strongly condemning their actions.

I carry at least a dozen of these letters with me daily. I also include Kamala's cell number so that they can call for de-escalation assistance.

 

[MCgrease08]

 

[Spear Dane]

You walk away and or call the police let them handle it.

Exactly so.

 

[Spear Dane]

Come on man take it easy as it is a good question.

Roger. I just felt like someone is suggesting the Joe Biden method and that's a great way to get killed. I've seen far too many videos of cops using tasers and what not on bad actors and doing nothing but pissing the person off.
I can point you to video of a trooper putting several .357 rounds into the chest of a driver he pulled over. The driver is (to my knowledge) still in prison. The trooper died at the scene.
There was video last year of a female cop landing rounds in a dude (another traffic stop) to no great effect. Do I need to go on?
OP wants to talk about freaking gel spray? Forgive my strong feelings on this but that is just dumb in capital letters.
I researched this situation ad nauseum and gamed it out in my head more times that I can count BEFORE I ever decided to carry. When a situation goes south it will do so in a flaming hurry and the very last thing you have time for is 'gee whiz, do pull the gel spray or the 9mm?' That's just absurd.

 

[MCgrease08]

Things are rarely black and white. There is a lot of gray area in a self-defense encounter and the conditions can change in an instant. There are countless scenarios where a person can be a threat, but a threat that does not justify deadly force.

Personally, I like to have options. I think it would be DUMB to spend my days in prison because I shot someone who didn't need to be shot just because my only tool was a pistol.

 

[cosermann]

Took Chuck Haggard's OC Spray/Less Lethal instructor course out in Kansas last fall at the ASP conference. Folks should be advised that the gel OC products out there currently take significantly longer to take effect compared to the stream, cone, or fog varieties. I get why some folks might want a gel or foam formulation due to cross-contamination, but unless it's a high priority, I think most people most of the time would be served best by a stream for personal defense.

To each his own, but having to wait for around 30 seconds (up to 2 min maybe) for a gel to take effect vs. almost instantaneous effect for streams/cone/fogs won't work for me most of the time. FYI.

 

[bwframe]

... I just felt like someone is suggesting the Joe Biden method and that's a great way to get killed... Blah, blah, blah...

Our friend says it all right here. His way or the highway. Everyone else's self-defense plan is bad. The firearm solves all problems, so you don't have to.

..............................................

It pays to have multiple tools in the box and the knowledge to use them. You can still shoot everybody, if you want, but options are options.

 

[obijohn]

While we're on the subject, what brand pepper spray does everyone like?

 

[Jeepster48439]

While we're on the subject, what brand pepper spray does everyone like?

I carry the Sabre brand.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Mr. Lefty, and Mr. Righty................

 

[cosermann]

While we're on the subject, what brand pepper spray does everyone like?

I usually carry a flip top dispenser in the 1.5ish oz neighborhood (unless I'm traveling somewhere that limits quantity). Look for something that has at least 0.7% major capsaicinoids up to around 2% in the final formulation (again unless you're planning to be somewhere that limits the formulation). Generally I avoid products for which I can't find the major capsaicinoid percentage of the final formulation. Marketing/sales info that only talks about the % OC or SHU of the initial resin isn't very helpful (and IMHO, indicates a vendor that isn't being transparent). Sabre, POM, and Fox all seem to offer some decent products.

 

[DadSmith]

My daughter works with people all day not allowed to carry a firearm or knife. So I got her one of these. It's like a Kubotan/pen. Yes it hurts she tested a few spots on dad after dad told her places to hit. She didn't hit hard like in a self-defense situation but man that thing gets to a few nerves fast.

Smith & Wesson® M&P® 2nd Generation Tactical Pen

store.smith-wesson.com

 

[2in1evtime]

My first thoughts this
I have a assailant in front of me, things are getting serious, i have a sidearm, pepper spray, spring loaded baton, what do i think first non lethal - i pull the pepper spray out prepare to spray, assailant grabs my arm i spray myself oops, now he has the spray and unloads it in my face, mouth til empty, throws me to the ground robs me finds the baton and beats me with it, checks my other pockets finds my sidearm , i'm gonna die now, instead the assailant kicks the heck out of me and leaves. good samaritan calls 911 since the assailant took my cell also, police showed, assailant no where to be found, trip to emergency room, couple days later detective from police force shows up to let me know they have my sidearm and that it was used in a killing in a robbery! just one scenario to think about

 

[gregr]

You walk away and or call the police let them handle it.

Devil`s Advocate; what if they refuse to allow you to just walk away. They`re not threatening you with any life-threatening force, but, maybe are punching you, slapping you, shoving you...

 

[gregr]

I usually carry a flip top dispenser in the 1.5ish oz neighborhood (unless I'm traveling somewhere that limits quantity). Look for something that has at least 0.7% major capsaicinoids up to around 2% in the final formulation (again unless you're planning to be somewhere that limits the formulation). Generally I avoid products for which I can't find the major capsaicinoid percentage of the final formulation. Marketing/sales info that only talks about the % OC or SHU of the initial resin isn't very helpful (and IMHO, indicates a vendor that isn't being transparent). Sabre, POM, and Fox all seem to offer some decent products.

So how does one research the types, brands, and dilutions/strengths that might be appropriate.

 

[Thor]

Hmmmm, nonlethal...hands and feet? Nope, got nothing. If I kill you with a knife or gun you can consider it a kindness.

I could kill you with an issue of Popular Mechanics.

I have an idea, if given the correct defensive situation you can pepper spray them with one hand and use a .45 with the other and get back to us on what stopped the threat. (If it's not a proper threat you should not use either but you need to keep your spidey senses on when out and about; situations change rapidly)

 

[DadSmith]

Devil`s Advocate; what if they refuse to allow you to just walk away. They`re not threatening you with any life-threatening force, but, maybe are punching you, slapping you, shoving you...

I believe Indiana law states if you believe you or a another person will sustain bodily injuries you can use reasonable force to stop the attack. I'd say by law you would be allowed to take your firearm out and point it at the aggressor and tell them to stop or you will shoot them in the legs. (Biden quote).
I'm no lawyer but I'm sure one can set me straight on this.

I would think any person that is physically assaulting you will stop once you point your firearm at them.

I've actually just pulled up my shirt and showed two would be thieves I had a firearm and they ran. Another time a guy was approaching me with a knife and I drew and pointed my firearm at him and told him to drop it. He did and nothing else happened. I was not arrested on either occasions. This is in 31 years of carry just two encounters where having a gun and yet I did not have to fire it. Having the gun still changed the situation. Who says you have to shoot someone every time you draw your weapon from its holster? I would call that none lethal use of a lethal weapon. I mean if cops shot every time they drew their firearms there would be a lot of shot up people daily.

The above stories are the very short version so there is a lot of details I left out.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I hand them a letter strongly condemning their actions.

You start with a letter of condemnation? Shouldn't you start with a terse email, followed by a strongly worded memo BEFORE the letter of condemnation? That's how the UN does it after all.