Welcome to Revere's Riders

[dirtdawg]

WRT insurance-

I signed up my range, Clinton County Farmers' and Sportsmen's Association, in SWOhio. I can report that there was no issue in meeting our club's insurance requirements, including having the club listed as additional insured. I understand that volunteers working at sanctioned events are covered by professional liability insurance.

In short, I regard the stated concerns about Revere's Riders as unfounded and utterly without basis.

 

[Hop]

What's kind of burning my butt is I'm still on the AS forum, still able to access the not-public instructor & planning sections, still trying to help out and I'm being ignored. There's a fairly high profile shoot in LaPorte IN that lost nearly all instructors & loaner guns for the kids. The shoot is going to happen with help from the Michigan crew... I hope. I've offered assistance but am getting nowhere with them. Maybe it's because I'm still an IIT-0 in there eyes. Not sure.

 

[warthog]

I probably have the History down but I am always willing to learn. Training has been a no go for me due to lack of money so let's see if your prices make it possible. You are also one of the few places I can actually travel to so I await more from you.

 

[Roadie]

If we could continue to discuss this without the previous name calling, that would be great.

OK? Thanks

 

[Bapak2ja]

Looking forward to the new price list.

 

[sloughfoot]

I wish you all peace and happiness.

From my perspective, if you want to learn how to shoot beyond the basics taught in these programs, go to NRA smallbore and Highpower matches and CMP Games or Leg matches.

I have taught lots of people how to shoot Service Rifles as a CMP Master Instructor.

If you are serious about learning to shoot a Service Rifle, ask to see the Instructors Distinguished Riflemans Badge.

If you want to learn the history and get the rifle basics, seek out venues such as what is being promoted on these forums.

They are great people and have a lot to offer. As I was advised earlier, I shall now give this a break. Somewhere, sometime I will see you on the range.

 

[yellowhousejake]

WHOA! Eject Eject Eject!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sloughfoot is entitled to his opinion, it didn't strike me as rude, just to the point. His range may choose who they support for whatever reason they think appropriate.

Folks, this is not a big deal. The bottom line, no rumors or posturing, just the cold uninteresting facts.

Indiana was one of the most successful states in the Appleseed program. Suggestions were presented on how to make Appleseed nationally see the same success. Persons were advised that if they thought they could build a better organization than Appleseed they should go do it.

They did. It's just that simple.

There are instructors in Appleseed, in Indiana, in INGO, who want to continue to support and promote Appleseed. They still deserve your support. Revere's Riders is not competition, not an adversary, just another option.

DAve.

 

[Iroquois]

As a host of many Appleseed events in recent years, it irks me to think that the 5 million dollar insurance policy may have been worthless.
If Revere ' s Riders can convince me they're doing a better job, we could entertain the idea of future events. ...
If Appleseed has run off a Gung ho newbie like TJ
Kakowski, they must be really messed up....hope AS gets their house back in order.

 

[Roadie]

Does it have to be one or the other, they have said they are not competitors..

 

[AuntieBellum]

As a host of many Appleseed events in recent years, it irks me to think that the 5 million dollar insurance policy may have been worthless.
If Revere ' s Riders can convince me they're doing a better job, we could entertain the idea of future events. ...
If Appleseed has run off a Gung ho newbie like TJ
Kakowski, they must be really messed up....hope AS gets their house back in order.

"Irks" doesn't even begin to cover my feelings on the matter. However, if you're willing to trust some ol' familiar faces, we'd love to bring Revere's Riders to you. While many of us you know weren't given the choice to stay in Appleseed, we are choosing to continue to spread the message of Liberty.

 

[MohawkSlim]

First and foremost, any of you who have questions should email Project Appleseed and ask them. I'm sure you'll get a response in a timely manner and they'll be more than happy to set you straight on the whole deal.

info@appleseedusa.org

I have been an Appleseed instructor since 2004. You say I come out of nowhere? Yeah, I have not been active for a while. I still believe in the program as envisioned by the founder. I am sad that these people could not find a way to work within the Appleseed program.

I am serious. I am sad there is no reconciliation with Appleseed.

As much as I like them as individuals, this offshoot of the Appleseed program will not be invited to our range.

You embody the issues with Appleseed. And what do you mean by, "these people?"

"Instructor since 2004." What's awesome about that is you've been an Appleseed instructor for over 11 years... yet Appleseed isn't even 10 years old.

"I have not been active for a while. I still believe in the program as envisioned by the founder." There are many folks out there exactly like you. They believe in the vision of the founder but, like the founder, they're unwilling and unable to see that vision become reality. They simply disappear or, worse, they actively exclude effective practices from taking place because "they're in charge." Look at your post, "this offshoot... will not be invited to our range." for proof of why Appleseed does not work.

You're sad they can't reconcile and find a way to work together yet you've done nothing personally to participate and won't explore the possibility of helping. Why not? Is doing nothing a more effective plan?

I don't want to call names and I don't know you (even though I was a highly active Appleseed volunteer SW of Camp Perry since 2008) so I'm not making any assumptions but it's strange that you're opposed to inviting in a new organization with a similar mission if you're so supportive of the Appleseed founder's vision. It's almost like you aren't supportive of his vision but are supportive of him.

Please let me know if there's anything we can do to help promote that vision at your range.

I just wish you had stayed with Appleseed. Without any explanation the separation makes as much sense a screen door on a submarine.

Not only did I try to stay with Project Appleseed I actually jumped through all the hoops to rejoin and start volunteering again shortly after being fired for being "anti-Appleseed."

The National Director (the founder Jack Daily, aka Fred) saw a photo of me getting my new Orange Hat on the forum and ordered it (along with any mention of my involvement) removed. He continually asserts a need for volunteers and then fired me AGAIN for volunteering! He will not allow me (and now most of the Indiana cadre of volunteers) to participate in further Project Appleseed events. We've been fired.

Those of you wondering why we didn't try to reconcile and stay with Appleseed should know we did. The majority of us did not leave willingly. We'd gladly still serve with Project Appleseed and still conduct numerous events here in Indiana but we're prohibited from doing so. The events you see still on the schedule will be covered by instructors from out of state who will most likely drive several hundred miles and several hours to put on Appleseed events.

This is standard procedure for Project Appleseed. The lone National Director (who's been a one man show from the beginning) fires those who are active and making progress to grow the program so he can retain control and micromanage every aspect. It's happened several times in several places and it will no doubt continue to happen. This process of staffing events with out of state instructors in the wake of firings only serves to burn out those instructors and then their local volunteers suffer and the whole process repeats. Meanwhile, the National Director stays in charge and attempts his best Valley Forge speech to goad the new volunteers into working even harder.

As many of you have noted Appleseed was getting pretty big in Indiana a few years ago. Yet, nationwide, fewer people are going to Appleseed now than they were a few years ago. Simply put, Appleseed has been mismanaged to the point of shrinking instead of meeting its goal of doubling every year. Those of us who've worked to make Appleseed a success have been fired. The founder of the program does not want Appleseed to be successful. He wants it to be just big enough to bring in revenue for his range but not so big that he can't keep sole control. When offered opportunity after opportunity for structured growth (in the way of grants, sponsorships, etc.) he turned them all down in favor of maintaining the "tell your friends" approach of ineffective grass-roots marketing. The prohibition of growth could no longer be assigned to mismanagement or ineptitude - it is deliberate.

It's not a secret why this has happened and there's no big cover-up or conspiracy behind it all. It's probably a pretty familiar story that many of you have seen at your local clubs and ranges. "Old dude wants to keep the power and stay in charge. New dudes are going off in another direction." You pretty much nailed it with the Baptists. We simply see things differently and were forced out. It wasn't our decision to make but it's not going to be something that stops us either. We're going to continue on mission regardless of what Fred says about us.... because we're still actively promoting his organization.

Ask him why he won't promote ours!




The beauty of Revere's Riders will be those of you wanting to cut Xs standing in nice manicured grass will still be able to do so. Those wanting to shoot through the weeds off the side of a hill will also get that opportunity. Anyone who likes to shoot clays or wants to take a defensive pistol class will have a local cadre of volunteers who will not only show them the ropes - but also tell them some history. We've outgrown Appleseed.

 

[Iroquois]

AuntieBellum, pm me. Let's see if we can get something scheduled for September. ...

 

[mbills2223]

Does it have to be one or the other, they have said they are not competitors..

Exactly. IMO, the more pro-2A organizations out there the better

 

[SEIndSAM]

I have stayed out of this until now, waiting for people with knowledge of the circumstances to comment. I'm glad that they have,

I can only add that I have attended 3 Indiana Appleseeds in the last 2 years and have enjoyed every one. Every Instructor I have met at these Appleseeds have been first class individuals whom I have grown to respect and I will follow them to what ever program that they choose to work. In any volunteer organization it's the people that make it a success or not and the Indiana volunteers I have met have been fantastic.

 

[Hop]

Mohawk Slim put on a U-KD 2.0 "Beta" class (UN-Known distance) to see if it was something Appleseed would develop and boy it caused a stir over on the AS forum. I thought it was great. I learned a lot and shot less than ~30 rounds all day. How to fill out range cards, target acquisition, distance to target estimation using multiple techniques, engaging targets using multiple techniques, etc... I really hope classes similar to that find it's way onto the RR schedule.

 

[sloughfoot]

Some of you guys really are charmers. Do you really try to bring people to your side by your comments (which I actually respect because I like reading your opinions) and the sneaky negative reps which I have no respect for. (and I don't care about either.)

Always remember, you never know what the future might bring. I have reviewed my posts, I don't think I have said anything bad about any individual. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me. I do tend to appear tactless in print because I have a "to the point" manner. If you have ever read a police report, that is my style. Sorry, I learned to write in the Academy. Captain Nelson was a stern taskmaster.

YHJ, what have you surrounded yourself with? Good luck to you and all you are endeavoring to achieve. Get a hold of me if you want to do something in NE Indiana. You and I can always work something out.

I still look forward to shooting with you anytime. I am really not too sure about some of these guys. Oh crap, I said it again. "these guys".. Some seem a little sensitive.. I better be careful because every time I say something I get a flurry of negative reps.

But I do remember distinctly that "Fred" put out the call in 2004 and I was not able to respond because I spent an month on the Nogales section taking fire from Mexico and standing watch in Huachuca mountains looking for and calling in drug smugglers. The call was in the spring of 2004 but the first Appleseed was at home range in the fall of 2004. So, yes, you are correct, the first Appleseed I could be involved with was the one that I was involved with in Lodi Wisconsin in 2005.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Mohawk Slim put on a U-KD 2.0 "Beta" class (UN-Known distance) to see if it was something Appleseed would develop and boy it caused a stir over on the AS forum. I thought it was great. I learned a lot and shot less than ~30 rounds all day. How to fill out range cards, target acquisition, distance to target estimation using multiple techniques, engaging targets using multiple techniques, etc... I really hope classes similar to that find it's way onto the RR schedule.

When and where do I need to be and who do I make the check out to!

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's like a soap opera in here. RR good luck with your program. I sincerely hope it does well.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Mohawk Slim put on a U-KD 2.0 "Beta" class (UN-Known distance)...
... I really hope classes similar to that find it's way onto the RR schedule.

I'm hopeful we'll have another on the schedule this winter. With luck, we'll have two or three similar events per year with even more challenges.

"these guys".. Some seem a little sensitive.. I better be careful because every time I say something I get a flurry of negative reps.

You should know it's not me giving you negative reps. I respect your to the point manner even if I don't agree with it. I hope you'll respect mine as well.

I also hope you'll give up any sensitivity you have and endeavor to work together toward advancing the mission. I know I will.

When and where do I need to be and who do I make the check out to!

Keep an eye on the schedule. It'll be on there once we get all the details lined up.

 

[42769vette]

If we do it at the same location as the "AS 2.0" I be making an announcement of said shoot.