Wayne LaPierre Resigns

[jamil]

Here
There are 200+ pages of testimony and evidence submitted to the court. They even provide receipts and invoices.

They wanted Oliver North to be a face, when he tried to live up to his job title...it risked the grift.

Not once since information was made public, have the activities and expenses in question been explained or justified. WLP had a chance to defend himself and the actions and expenses in court. He could not and did not because they are not defendable.

They simply call them "attacks on the organization"

And sycophantic enablers condemn people for wanting to hold people to account.

 

[Ingomike]

I hope all of you following along join and get the ability to vote to work on rebuilding the NRA!

 

[jwamplerusa]

How do all of you feel about the bylaws changes?

Are you voting yes or no?

 

[rbhargan]

Going through this thread, one train of argument seems to be, "yes he was a corrupt SOB, but he was OUR corrupt SOB."

The BOD is too big to be effective - or accountable. Get it down to a dozen members and they can be held accountable for the actions of the Executive.

Find an Executive who has already made their fortune and is looking to give back. Not someone who sees it as a means to line their pockets. That is the problem with a lot of our current politicians.

The NRA could be an effective advocate for the 2A - but not if they are not transparent about finances. People want to know that if they donate to the NRA their money is going to protect the 2A - not line someone's pockets.

If the NRA does not address the shortcomings highlighted by the previous administration, then they are just another corrupt political entity - no different from any number of "environmental" and "public interest" groups.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yep, a lifetime of following the filthy politics of DC boils down to nothing more than silly musings.

Well, I didn't say "silly" but if you want to add it I won't argue. You are saying "..seems likely they engaged in swamp activities and the penalties for that are worse than the penalties for this." so let's compare.

Argument A:

I've followed DC politics all my life and that's how things work. I have no evidence, and nobody else does either. I am arguing that the NRA has powerful enemies and is infiltrated by leftists, but none of them could find evidence that would lead to criminal charges and massive bad PR for the NRA and some NRA allied elected officials. I'm also arguing that the NRA was a super powerful and feared political entity...but it also had to engage in bribery to get anything done.

The people who want to bring down the NRA just can't put 2 and 2 together. They can't flip anyone. Nobody wants a bigger piece of the pie and nobody combing through the financials notices any money laundering, etc. Because obviously nobody looking to take down the entity would use forensic accounting and point out the slightest hint of impropriety in both a pro-gun organization and a Republican office holder. Nobody who "infiltrated" was able to get a sniff of it.


is more likely than:

Argument B

WLP stuck his hand in the cookie jar, didn't get caught, and kept going back for more and bigger cookies because he could...and then he got caught. There is no evidence of anything else presented by anyone because that evidence doesn't exist. Nobody flipped because there's nothing to flip on. There's no funny accounting because an entity like the NRA would be under significant scrutiny and investigators aren't idiots who can't figure out money laundering/bribery schemes.

Millions of dollars are legally donated to politicians campaigns and to PACs. Spending $5 million dollars on ads are their behalf and donating a few mil direct to their campaign, but a trip to India is what's going to seal the deal...


Even if you are willfully delusional and buy in to Argument A:

He's bribing people and... we still couldn't get suppressors off the NFA under a majority Republican congress and POTUS, so he apparently sucked at it. Didn't you also argue Trump's bump stock move was to prevent an AWB? We couldn't get a few more suits in the right hands to prevent that? If we're going to play dirty, get someone with a decent ROI.

NRA-ILA and the state level efforts has been responsible for the vast vast majority of moving the legal ball forward on gun owner's side, not Wayne and not Wayne's spending on suits or a made up bribery quid pro quo, no matter who got to wear them in your mind.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, I didn't say "silly" but if you want to add it I won't argue. You are saying "..seems likely they engaged in swamp activities and the penalties for that are worse than the penalties for this." so let's compare.

Argument A:

I've followed DC politics all my life and that's how things work. I have no evidence, and nobody else does either. I am arguing that the NRA has powerful enemies and is infiltrated by leftists, but none of them could find evidence that would lead to criminal charges and massive bad PR for the NRA and some NRA allied elected officials. I'm also arguing that the NRA was a super powerful and feared political entity...but it also had to engage in bribery to get anything done.

The people who want to bring down the NRA just can't put 2 and 2 together. They can't flip anyone. Nobody wants a bigger piece of the pie and nobody combing through the financials notices any money laundering, etc. Because obviously nobody looking to take down the entity would use forensic accounting and point out the slightest hint of impropriety in both a pro-gun organization and a Republican office holder. Nobody who "infiltrated" was able to get a sniff of it.


is more likely than:

Argument B

WLP stuck his hand in the cookie jar, didn't get caught, and kept going back for more and bigger cookies because he could...and then he got caught. There is no evidence of anything else presented by anyone because that evidence doesn't exist. Nobody flipped because there's nothing to flip on. There's no funny accounting because an entity like the NRA would be under significant scrutiny and investigators aren't idiots who can't figure out money laundering/bribery schemes.

Millions of dollars are legally donated to politicians campaigns and to PACs. Spending $5 million dollars on ads are their behalf and donating a few mil direct to their campaign, but a trip to India is what's going to seal the deal...


Even if you are willfully delusional and buy in to Argument A:

He's bribing people and... we still couldn't get suppressors off the NFA under a majority Republican congress and POTUS, so he apparently sucked at it. Didn't you also argue Trump's bump stock move was to prevent an AWB? We couldn't get a few more suits in the right hands to prevent that? If we're going to play dirty, get someone with a decent ROI.

NRA-ILA and the state level efforts has been responsible for the vast vast majority of moving the legal ball forward on gun owner's side, not Wayne and not Wayne's spending on suits or a made up bribery quid pro quo, no matter who got to wear them in your mind.

Do we really disagree? As this is proving my main point, nobody knows the truth? We can all guess, and some guesses are more likely than others, but no one knows for sure. Leading to my second point, I am completely against just burning down the main gun rights organization that fights in the legislatures of this country over the unknown. End of story.

I was for reforming the NRA structure before many here were and before all this came down. I have no interest in debating the guesses as to what happened just trying to point out there may be other possibilities and that what is being reported by those with motives against the organization or leadership are not the only possibilities.

 

[DadSmith]

 

[Twangbanger]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/co...new-york-trial-verdict/?utm_source=newsletter

In the NRA's own words:

"...The six-person jury found that many of the business arrangements in which the NRA entered were appropriate and did not qualify as improper related party transactions. However, the six-person jury rendered a verdict that found the NRA failed to properly administer the organization and its assets, and that it violated whistleblower protections of New York Nonprofit Law.

With respect to other individual defendants, the jury found Mr. LaPierre and Mr. Phillips violated their statutory obligations to discharge the duties of their position in good faith and with care. The jury found the monetary harm suffered by the NRA for each individual was $5.4 million and $2 million, respectively. (Defendant Powell reached a settlement with the NYAG prior to the start of the jury proceedings.)..."

$7.4 doesn't sound like a "pittance" to me. That's a whole lot of suits and plane flights.

 

[jamil]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/co...new-york-trial-verdict/?utm_source=newsletter

In the NRA's own words:

"...The six-person jury found that many of the business arrangements in which the NRA entered were appropriate and did not qualify as improper related party transactions. However, the six-person jury rendered a verdict that found the NRA failed to properly administer the organization and its assets, and that it violated whistleblower protections of New York Nonprofit Law.

With respect to other individual defendants, the jury found Mr. LaPierre and Mr. Phillips violated their statutory obligations to discharge the duties of their position in good faith and with care. The jury found the monetary harm suffered by the NRA for each individual was $5.4 million and $2 million, respectively. (Defendant Powell reached a settlement with the NYAG prior to the start of the jury proceedings.)..."

$7.4 doesn't sound like a "pittance" to me. That's a whole lot of suits and plane flights.

And stuff for the Mrs, and stuff for the home and fam.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do we really disagree? As this is proving my main point, nobody knows the truth? We can all guess, and some guesses are more likely than others, but no one knows for sure.

Yeah, we really do disagree. You said "it seems likely they engaged in swamp activities". Likely =/= nobody knows and as you say, some are more likely than others. Yours is not likely by any stretch. Even with the internal logic of your own arguments it's not remotely likely and why you can't answer with anything other than "we don't *really* know". Take a look at the posters who are telling you your notion is nonsense. Find a single other thing we've all agreed on in a social/political/economic thread. And you got we may not really disagree vs maybe time to rethink your position?

Ok.

I've seen the me too movement and what powerful quasi-celebrity white males do with their wealth and power. I think it's likely he's being blackmailed by diddled interns to keep quiet and that's why he stole so much from the organization. Maybe he paid to remove his name from the Epstein list. That's why the money didn't actually secure any new gun rights.

Literally the same amount of evidence, literally the same "you can't know and nobody knows" argument applies. The only difference is there's no battered spouse syndrome so the made up baseless hypothetical doesn't keep the mythological hero you've created unsullied.

 

[Ingomike]

Yeah, we really do disagree. You said "it seems likely they engaged in swamp activities". Likely =/= nobody knows and as you say, some are more likely than others. Yours is not likely by any stretch. Even with the internal logic of your own arguments it's not remotely likely and why you can't answer with anything other than "we don't *really* know". Take a look at the posters who are telling you your notion is nonsense. Find a single other thing we've all agreed on in a social/political/economic thread. And you got we may not really disagree vs maybe time to rethink your position?

Ok.

I've seen the me too movement and what powerful quasi-celebrity white males do with their wealth and power. I think it's likely he's being blackmailed by diddled interns to keep quiet and that's why he stole so much from the organization. Maybe he paid to remove his name from the Epstein list. That's why the money didn't actually secure any new gun rights.

Literally the same amount of evidence, literally the same "you can't know and nobody knows" argument applies. The only difference is there's no battered spouse syndrome so the made up baseless hypothetical doesn't keep the mythological hero you've created unsullied.

So you are saying you know 100% what happened, because others agree with you in a forum? And further we will never hear anything further concerning this? All the shoes have dropped we now know all there is to know about this?

It all be interesting to me to see what comes out over the next twenty years in the books, memoirs, and interviews. As I said I do not know…

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So you are saying you know 100% what happened, because others agree with you in a forum?

You *honestly* think that's what I'm saying in that post? That's such a magnificent deflection even the German judge gave it a 10.

 

[2tonic]

Can we just dig up Charlton Heston and make him the NRA chief?
He wouldn't be any stiffer or more incoherent than the current POTUS.
Plus, everyone pays attention when Moses speaks.

 

[KellyinAvon]

My money is on... gets announced during the NRA Annual Meeting of Members in May IIRC.

 

[jamil]

So you are saying you know 100% what happened, because others agree with you in a forum? And further we will never hear anything further concerning this? All the shoes have dropped we now know all there is to know about this?

It all be interesting to me to see what comes out over the next twenty years in the books, memoirs, and interviews. As I said I do not know…

Why do you keep doing this? If someone doesn't agree with what you say, you keep saying they're saying the exact opposite of what you're saying. He just said "know one knows". How can you possibly, rationally declare that he's saying he knows 100%? WTF?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why do you keep doing this? If someone doesn't agree with what you say, you keep saying they're saying the exact opposite of what you're saying. He just said "know one knows". How can you possibly, rationally declare that he's saying he knows 100%? WTF?

Same as the cycling post. Options are:

1) Steely determination to never admit a flawed argument, so purposefully misread other's posts and misconstrue their argument to an absurd level. Counterattack to deflect attention from illogical conclusions pointed out in his own idea

2) Had a stroke

3) Is just **** posting

 

[Destro]

Why do you keep doing this? If someone doesn't agree with what you say, you keep saying they're saying the exact opposite of what you're saying. He just said "know one knows". How can you possibly, rationally declare that he's saying he knows 100%? WTF?

He does this with all his arguments. He uses portable goal posts and whataboutism when met with thoughts that challenge his own.

The WLP and "deep-state" style talking points didn't stick, so he shifted to doubt and deniability.

 

[foszoe]

Hey now, according to Ingomike I am the obstinate troll! I refuse to share the podium.

I insist you redirect any negativity at me!

Sanctmoniusly whatever and sacrilegious are not the same!

 

[Ingomike]

He does this with all his arguments. He uses portable goal posts and whataboutism when met with thoughts that challenge his own.

The WLP and "deep-state" style talking points didn't stick, so he shifted to doubt and deniability.

Do you read much? There literally are infinite possibilities, even the one @BehindBlueI's suggested as a lark, I just described a possibility to something we do not know. I think the WLPDS runs rampant here. People didn’t like him and seized on the opportunity to jump on him. I don’t like him and was supporting those that were trying to reform the NRA before all this.

So you unquestionably believe a DA that campaigned on getting the NRA publicly and believe this is all legit. The same DA that campaigned against Trump and charged him though there were no victims in a court system that just ruled Trump owes hundreds of millions for successful business.

You guys are much more trusting than I am of the NY system and that to me is a shame to destroy a crucial organization for gun owners.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you read much? There literally are infinite possibilities, even the one @BehindBlueI's suggested as a lark, I just described a possibility to something we do not know.

No you didn't. You declared it likely.

I've quoted it repeatedly.

Be honest.