Vigo County Public Library

[Mrs. Hoppes]

I received an e-mail today (and although it was technically directed to the whole group, it was specifically to my husband) about the library and carrying.

Husband and I both looked for signs saying no firearms and did not see any. I could not find any rules on their website. Yet, in the e-mail, it states that the VCPL rules state no weapons.

To all participants in WaVaHo,

The Wabash Valley Homeschool Association is first and foremost a
collection of friends and families that are interested in promoting
the growth and education of our children. As such, we do not have any
kind of governing board or steering committee to set rules and by laws.

Over the more than 25 years that the group has existed, the premise
of each family being an equal part of guiding the group has been one
of our strongest characteristics.

However, we do use community facilities and our group does need to
respect the rules and guidelines of those facilities.

This past Wednesday, while at the public library, members of our
group were in violation of the library's rules; specifically, the
library has a ban on all weapons.

While we are aware that some members of our group have carry
permits for handguns, the library's policy is as follows:

"Weapons of any kind are prohibited in the library. Included are
weapons such as knives, guns, numchux, clubs or blackjacks."

It is our understanding that if you choose to carry when you
come to the library, you will be asked to leave immediately. It does
not matter whether you open or conceal carry.

We are not aware if the West Vigo Community Center has
similar rules, but we expect that anyone participating in activities
at the Center will follow the rules that they have established. If
you desire to carry while at the Center, then you will need to confirm
that that is within the Center's rules and guidelines.

Our use of these facilities is contingent upon recognizing
and following their guidelines. If this is not acceptable to you and
your family, you are welcome to discuss the issue with their staff
members on your own time as an individual.

Some of our activities take place in private residences
and/or member's homes. In an attempt to accommodate people's choices,
we are requesting that no person brings a weapon to any WaVaHo
activity without checking with the resident first.

Our group has been built on respecting and celebrating
individual choice and differences. We hope that it is clear that
while we respect the right to bear arms, it is important to also
respect that some families do not want any weapons in their homes.

Thank you,

Does anyone have any info on the library rules or the West Vigo Community Center rules that I can link to?

 

[Scutter01]

Isn't the library owned by the city? How can they ban weapons without a city ordinance?

 

[indyjoe]

Concealed means concealed. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Since it is Vigo COUNTY, I am assuming it is owned by the county. People who live in the county pay for the library out of their taxes and get a "free" library card, but people who live outside the county have to pay for a library card.

 

[Fenway]

Someone remind me not to bring my numchux next time I swing by that Library

 

[Dogman]

Concealed means concealed. That's all I have to say about that.

, unless they have their super secret x-ray glasses on.

 

[Scutter01]

"Concealed means concealed" isn't the point. Why would you patronize a place where you're not wanted? By whose authority are they banning weapons?

 

[Bubbajms]

Why not stop by and ask for a copy of the rules??

I hate when people use the term "Weapon" like that, too. My knife is a tool that I use on a daily basis, and it's never actually been used as a "Weapon". And if lil'Timmy wants to bring his "numchux" to the library, why not?? I've seen a bajillion demos and who ALWAYS gets hurt?? The guy with the "numchux"!

All that aside, though - it also sounds like they don't want the hubby to be carrying. They mention coming to people's houses, too.. do you know who's uncomfortable with this?? Maybe talking to them would be a good start..

 

[Mrs. Hoppes]

That is what I am trying to find out. I went to the VCPL web site and could not find anything pertaining to ANY rules with the library much less rules regarding weapons of any kind. (And since knives are also supposedly banned, I guess everyone who brings a knife in with their lunch out to be thrown out as well.)

The person who wrote the e-mail only put the "rule" in quotation marks and never put a link with it or said where she got the rule from.

I don't want to respond with a "You're wrong" without some back-up such a a list of library rules with no mention of the ban or if she is right, post a link to the rule stating the ban so others in the group can know without just going on one person's say so.

 

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Why not stop by and ask for a copy of the rules??

I hate when people use the term "Weapon" like that, too. My knife is a tool that I use on a daily basis, and it's never actually been used as a "Weapon". And if lil'Timmy wants to bring his "numchux" to the library, why not?? I've seen a bajillion demos and who ALWAYS gets hurt?? The guy with the "numchux"!

All that aside, though - it also sounds like they don't want the hubby to be carrying. They mention coming to people's houses, too.. do you know who's uncomfortable with this?? Maybe talking to them would be a good start..

Sorry to serial post.

We have never had a problem before, but Hubby got some second looks from a couple of the moms and I guess that is where the problem is coming from.

As for other people's houses, last year most of the stuff was held at Camp Wildwood. (A boyscout camp) No problems there. But then again, he stayed in the van or ran errands while I was with the children.

This year, the only house we have a class at besides the library is my house and quite frankly if people want to come loaded for bear, that is fine by me.

There are classes held at other moms houses, but those are for the older children. I have the younger children since that fits the age of my children.

 

[Scutter01]

I don't want to respond with a "You're wrong" without some back-up such a a list of library rules with no mention of the ban or if she is right, post a link to the rule stating the ban so others in the group can know without just going on one person's say so.

Just make sure the ink's not still wet...

 

[Dogman]

With having read some of the posts about Terre Haute PD, and now this, the people in Vigo county do understand they live in Indiana and not Illinois, don't they?

 

[Bubbajms]

I contacted the library up here and their only "rule" is no skateboarding!

I'm looking at the Vigo County Library website, and their live search (via google) has no link on "Weapons"..

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

Concealed means concealed. That's all I have to say about that.

UHM...?/??? WHAT does that mean?

 

[indyjoe]

UHM...?/??? WHAT does that mean?

If you are carrying concealed, no one should know you are carrying concealed, so that no one can freak out.

There are two sides to this. You carry open and explain your rights and show people that there is nothing evil with it. If you are carrying concealed very poorly, you are essentially carrying open. Or you carry concealed and no one knows unless the worst happens and then they will be happy that you can protect them.

For times when you don't have time to work through all the red tape that the first entails, the second is an option. Although I have nothing but respect for those that try to educate the sheep like masses that have ignorant and irrational fears about firearms or other tools (not weapons) like knives.

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

If you are carrying concealed, no one should know you are carrying concealed, so that no one can freak out..

The problem with that assumption is that no one can conceal carry with out the occasional slip. then the freak out factor goes off the scale because it was deliberately hidden.
I open carry so people won't fear the carry but come to know the person carrying.

In this instance I wasn't afforded a single negative word just sumarily rulled against by an association we belonged to up until this. I have no problem with people saying they don't want it in their home or where ever, but this association didn't give me a chance to respect their wishes, and went directly to a blanket Email to our group.
Beings the leader who sent the Email has such a problem with speaking to me directly and not behind an Email sent to a whole group, I have decided no to participate in the group any more. There are other groups who can respect the indivual rights of their members to try and resolve issues without resorting to blanket Emails. Yes I am Livid with this person who I considered a freind.

 

[melensdad]

ONE THING TO POINT OUT: Unless there is some sort of city ordnance, that complies with state law and that bans guns from the library, the 'rules' of the library are not legally enforceable. It is no different than a retail store that has a rule that bans guns. Indiana law does not recognize those rules.

 

[Mrs. Hoppes]

My reply:

A few things.

1. I went to the VCPL site and saw nothing on there anywhere about carrying concealed or otherwise. And I most certainly did not see the rule that was quoted.

2. I went to the library itself and saw nothing about no weapons. I did, however, see plenty of no smoking signs.

3. If the library has a problem with anyone carrying, it is up to the library to come forward.

4. Barb Palmer was not at the library at the time my husband was there so her name has no place on this e-mail. Founder or not. (What happened to there is no one person in charge?)

5. If there is a problem with my husband carrying, come to him or me directly. Blanket e-mails are under-handed and mean.

6. We will of course respect peoples wishes about carrying in their home. But calling to ask first shows a disrespect to us and to the Bill of Rights that you claim to support.

Does anyone call and ask first if they can cuss in my house? (Freedom of speech.) No. But if someone does, I have the right to ask them to stop.

Does anyone call and ask if they can pray to a different god at meal time? No. (Freedom of religion.)

Why should we call and ask if we can uphold our Constitutional Rights? Now if someone came up to us and asked us to leave the gun in the car, we would do so with no problems.

Blanket e-mails like this are uncalled for. A simple pulling one of us aside (and you were alone with the both of us at one point with ample opportunity to say something) would have settled the matter. George would have had no problem with that and gone out to the truck and locked the gun up.

I poked around and asked others about VCPL and the no weapons and came up empty.

http://ingunowners. com/forums/ carry_issues_ and_self_ defense/10663- vigo_county_ public_library. html

If you do not want anyone carrying, say so. But don't do it under the guise of rules and regulations and an authority over this group that you have said on more than one occasion that there is none.

And next time you (or anyone else) has an issue with any of us, bring it directly to us.

I hate to say it, but you just lost my respect by doing this.

What happens from here, I don't know. I considered this person a friend and I am actually hurt that she pulled this. My husband considered her a friend as well and he does not use that word easily or casually. She is one of the few people we would have felt comfortable leaving our children with. We have her on our short list of emergency calls if we needed someone to watch our children in the event of an emergency. That is not an easy list to make.

 

[Pami]

Just out of curiosity... there's 25 families and you live in a relatively rural area of the state, right? Are you positively sure this blanket email was directed *only* at your family?

 

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Let's see. My husband is the only one who open carries. There is only one other family in the group that carries and they are not active in the group. We are very active.

He was at the library yesterday OC and today is the e-mail.

Way too much of a coincidence for it to not be directed at him/us.