Valparaiso Politics....HOGS

[HoughMade]

Moot point now

Yep. PETA wins again.

Strange allies people choose sometimes.

 

[jd4320t]

So in case people don't understand property rights im going to try and explain it again. You can do what ever you like on YOUR property. As long as it does not affect MY property. The moment it affects MY property then you have just took away my property rights. I have a right to defend MY property from future attacks. I have not found one article saying CAFOs do not harm the local water and air. There is research that points out asthma increases in children in areas near CAFOs. If they build a hog factory and it does not affect MY property im all for it. If they build a hog factory and it DOES affect my property then they have just violated my rights to property and im against it. Since everything I read is negative regarding CAFOs I am in my right to defend my land. This is how property rights work. Just like the right to life. Someone does not have to shoot you first for you to defend your life. If they point a gun at you, you can shoot them before you get shot. This is your right to life.

Anyone on here think property rights work differently? Plz explain. And I live in the immediate area and there are signs all over already for this.

Cry me a river then move to the city. You and your like minded people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Someday when your grocery bill has doubled and tripled like in the last 10 years I want you to think about this and how people like you won't let farmers farm.

 

[jd4320t]

jd you said you where going this weekend take any pics?? Plz share your inside knowledge with INGO we want to know the truth.

Pics of what? My family is near the CAFO's every day. People drive by, kids ride atv's, non farming neighbors still go outside and enjoy the country life. Do you want pics of the smell that isn't in the air 95% of the time? Pics of the manure that you can't see because it is contained per the rules and guidelines the farmer follows? Perhaps you'd like pics of the thousands of acres of land that the manure is put on and you can't even tell after it's worked into the ground.

I want a pic of everything in your refrigerator. Then I'll take my personal time to Google and show you where those products come from.

 

[jd4320t]

I'll post one pic. This kid is now 8. He's a natural born farmer just like his dad. He's from stock that will work every single damn day of the year doing some sort of farm work. Because of people who are selfish, ignorant and don't really understand CAFO's his farming future will always be a challenge.

 

[jamil]

So in case people don't understand property rights im going to try and explain it again. You can do what ever you like on YOUR property. As long as it does not affect MY property. The moment it affects MY property then you have just took away my property rights. I have a right to defend MY property from future attacks. I have not found one article saying CAFOs do not harm the local water and air. There is research that points out asthma increases in children in areas near CAFOs. If they build a hog factory and it does not affect MY property im all for it. If they build a hog factory and it DOES affect my property then they have just violated my rights to property and im against it. Since everything I read is negative regarding CAFOs I am in my right to defend my land. This is how property rights work. Just like the right to life. Someone does not have to shoot you first for you to defend your life. If they point a gun at you, you can shoot them before you get shot. This is your right to life.

Anyone on here think property rights work differently? Plz explain. And I live in the immediate area and there are signs all over already for this.

I think the INGO libertarians will disown you if they haven't already.

Here's the thing. In a plural and opinionated, social media world, it's hard to find the truth amidst the noise. Most of it is noise.

Do you believe in global warming? It's hard to be skeptical of that through all the noise. People affect social change through peer pressure. Ask yourself why so much opposition to the hog farm came from outsiders.

 

[HoughMade]

... Ask yourself why so much opposition to the hog farm came from outsiders.

It is certainly because PETA and like minded groups care about kids in Morgan Township and their parent's property values.

 

[jd4320t]

After checking out the "No CAFO's in Porter County" Facebook page again it blows my mind how similar these people are to those who want to take away our guns. They couldn't be more selfish and ignorant.

I'm not extremely political. I don't do as much as I should and I know it but at least I can say I'll fight for everyone's rights and not just what benefits me.

 

[rambone]

So in case people don't understand property rights im going to try and explain it again. You can do what ever you like on YOUR property. As long as it does not affect MY property. The moment it affects MY property then you have just took away my property rights. I have a right to defend MY property from future attacks. I have not found one article saying CAFOs do not harm the local water and air. There is research that points out asthma increases in children in areas near CAFOs. If they build a hog factory and it does not affect MY property im all for it. If they build a hog factory and it DOES affect my property then they have just violated my rights to property and im against it. Since everything I read is negative regarding CAFOs I am in my right to defend my land. This is how property rights work. Just like the right to life. Someone does not have to shoot you first for you to defend your life. If they point a gun at you, you can shoot them before you get shot. This is your right to life.

Anyone on here think property rights work differently? Plz explain. And I live in the immediate area and there are signs all over already for this.

You are right to object to your land being physically polluted by someone else. But to object to anything that "affects" you or your land is an overly broad expectation.

Extra traffic on the road? The smell of the neighbor's BBQ? Loud, annoying kids next door? A majestic view being blocked by the neighbor's fence? Long grass in the adjacent lot? Any of these things might "affect" a person and his perceived quality of life, but one would hope the basis of law is not to prevent people from being annoyed with each other. "Affects" is just too imprecise a term for this conversation.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

...I'll fight for everyone's rights...

​Dosproduction's new sig line

 

[jamil]

You are right to object to your land being physically polluted by someone else. But to object to anything that "affects" you or your land is an overly broad expectation.

Extra traffic on the road? The smell of the neighbor's BBQ? Loud, annoying kids next door? A majestic view being blocked by the neighbor's fence? Long grass in the adjacent lot? Any of these things might "affect" a person and his perceived quality of life, but one would hope the basis of law is not to prevent people from being annoyed with each other. "Affects" is just too imprecise a term for this conversation.

I tried to make the same point way up-thread. You probably expressed it more concisely than I did. So maybe he won't have to try to explain it again.

 

[Dosproduction]

But you moved into an agricultural area or at least near one, the farm was there long before your house. You are the one trying to change the intended use of your neighbors property.
Livestock are part of agriculture you do understand that righ? The farm was there when you moved/ built right? He should have every right to utilize his agricultural land for agriculture, if that includes livestock it's his right. Because you didn't understand the posability of what could legally happen in an agricultural area is not his fault or responsibility. It's too bad that so many people are ignorant of what happens in the country. You can take all that CAFO propaganda out of the picture, doesn't matter.

I moved to a agricultural area. Not a high impact area. There is a large difference hence the zoning change they where pushing for. There is a large cattle farm as close as this place would have been. I have NO issue with it. I would have no issue if they wanted to raise pigs on there property. What they where planning is a hog factory not a farm or agricultural anything. And I have property rights just as much as him. I do not have to allow someone to destroy my property to please his needs. Farmers and farms are fine CAFOs are not farms though.

JD you are a socialist. You think it is fine to destroy someone else's rights (property) in order to fulfill your selfish need for cheap food. You believe in large collectivized farms "kolkhoz" instead of the individual farmer. This happen in Soviet russia and the results where devastating. The reason the traditional farmer has to join the collective is because people like you and CAFOs are undermining there profits with there large scale factory's. This all started to gain momentum during the Clinton reign and his campaign contributor Tyson. Tyson is from Arkansas and help push the anti assault weapon king into power. Tyson forces local farmers to either jump on board into there CAFO machines or they buy them out right. This is large corporations taking away the lively hood of small local farmers. You JD are anti farmer. You are pro large corporations taking over the small guys farm. Id call this Communism but really it is the step before communism, National Socialism. As in NAZI.

Rambone right it should be all "negative" affects. And only my property so not views ect. If someone refuses to cut there grass and I can prove it is negatively affecting my land such as mice and what not then I might have a leg to stand on. Does not seem like a winnable case though.

jamil I do not believe in global warming but I do believe in conservation of everything. That means conserve energy, conserve water conserve wahtever. I am all for getting renewable resources because it is logical to do that, it will conserve. Im all for being green because it is conservative to be green. The greener you are the less you waste and everyone should be for less waste.

 

[D-Ric902]

 

[Dosproduction]

lol

 

[slowG]

Where the heck is valparaiso?

 

[Dosproduction]

I must say I feel the same way about GMO corn and such. The corporations that design the corn plant it somewhere then go around and test corn in the area there GMO corn is grown. If it is found to have there genetic marker (because of cross pollination) they sue the small guy out of business or force them to buy there GMO corn seed. I have no issue with making food more productive but I do have a issue with large corporations coming in and taking out the small individual farmer through no fault of the farmer.

 

[Dosproduction]

South east of Gary South west of Michigan city. 49 and route 30

 

[wagyu52]

I moved to a agricultural area. Not a high impact area. There is a large difference hence the zoning change they where pushing for. There is a large cattle farm as close as this place would have been. I have NO issue with it. I would have no issue if they wanted to raise pigs on there property. What they where planning is a hog factory not a farm or agricultural anything. And I have property rights just as much as him. I do not have to allow someone to destroy my property to please his needs. Farmers and farms are fine CAFOs are not farms though.

Wow, Porter county has some wicked zoning laws, sure glad I don't live there. You are kind of counterdicting your self as I see it. He was wanting HI zoning for a CAFO which you apose because it will devalue your property. You then state you have no issue with him raising some pigs but that requires the same HI zoning change. As I read it Porter county makes no distinction between a CFO, CAFO or any livestock feeding opperation.
CAFO, CFO, family farms all raise pigs the same way in confinement. There is no evil hog empire that abuses, mistreats or allows thier animals to live in unhealthy environments. Healthy, happy pigs are profitable pigs, it's that simple.
My neighbor is the caretaker of 2-quad 4 finishing houses that's 80,000 head, cooperate owned pigs farmer owned buildings. He went to school for a week to learn how to move pigs from pens to the trailer with a feather duster. All the pigs are destined for Japan and pampered to the max, only the best make the grade and get big money.

 

[wagyu52]

Right from Porter counties web page.

2.41 HI District Intent, Permitted Uses, and Special Exception UsesDistrict Intent
The HI (High Impact Uses) District is intended to be used as follows:
Use Type and Intensity
•high impact uses
Application of District
• Existing and new development
Development Standards
•Recognize the need for quality time, place and manner development standards to minimize impacts on adjacent properties while encouraging economic vitality;
•Minimize light, noise, water and air pollution.
Appropriate Adjacent Districts
• GW, P1, P2, A2, IN, OT, CM, CH, I1, I2 and I3
Required Approvals
• Development Plan approval required for all developments.
Plan Commission
• Zone property HI only after determining that the site is appropriate for any of the possible uses allowed in the zoning district;
• Be very sensitive to environmental protection.
Board of Zoning Appeals
•Allow a Special Exception use only when it clearly is a benefit to the surrounding areas;
• Require significant buffering and separation from adjacent uses and environmental features;
• Be very sensitive to the potential for light pollution, noise pollution, and pedestrian and vehicular safety.
Special Exception Uses
Commercial Uses
• amusement park • feed lot, commercial • feed lot, confined • motorcross •race track • stadium • water park
Industrial Uses
• construction material landfill • incinerator • junk yard • mineral extraction
• rending plant • sanitary landfill/refuse dump •scrap metal yard • transfer station
Institutional Uses
• prison
Permitted Uses
Agricultural Uses
• agricultural crop production •raising of farm and exotic animals • sale of agricultural products* • storage of agricultural products
Industrial Uses
• asphalt plant • concrete ready-mix plant • electrical generation plant • heavy manufacturing • liquid fertilizer storage/distribution • outdoor storage • recycling processing • storage tanks (hazardous) • storage tanks (nonhazardous) • telecommunication facility
Institutional Uses
•police, fire or rescue station


Confined Feeding: 1. The confined feeding of animals for food, fur, or pleasure purposes in lots, pens, ponds, sheds, or buildings
where: a. Animals are confined, fed, and maintained for at least forty-five (45) days during any twelve-month
period; and b. Ground cover or vegetation is not sustained over at least fifty percent (50%) of the animal
confinement area.
2. The term does not include the following: a. A livestock market:
i. Where animals are assembled from at least two (2) sources to be publicly auctioned or privately sold on a commission basis; and
ii. That is under State or federal supervision. b. A livestock sale barn or auction market where animals are kept for not more than ten (10) days.

Note the definition, for food, fur or pleasure no amount number given. It could be 5 chickens, 2 pigs, 1 cow, a horse or 100,000 pigs.
If you put an animal in a barn for more than 45 days in Porter county you have to go through the same zoning as a landfill, junkyard, prison and heavy manufacturing. That is messed up.

 

[Dosproduction]

U should read that again that is not what it says

 

[Dosproduction]

That only is for confined animals that have less the 50% ground cover